2022 BBHOF Tracker Summary and Leaderboard

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  1. My thoughts are no one is getting in again this year, which is a shame. I think next year when the ballot clears, Rolen, Wagner, Helton, Ortiz and Jones will eventually get elected over the next 3-5 years.

    • Anyone who won’t vote for Bonda should not vote for Ortiz for the same reason. Reportedly didn’t pass initial tests and got better as a 39 and 40 year old. If he was not using it shows, contrary to all the arguments players, can get better as they get older. Ortiz had one of his best years ever at age 40. His home run totals at 39 and 40 were the best he had in over 10 years. He had never hit more than 31 until 2004, 2005 and 2006 when he hit 41, 47, and 54, as the steroid era was coming to an end and testing was in place. They he was back in the 20s and low 30s until he was 39 and 40. If Big Papi was on the up and up an he very well may have been, his career shows that players can legitimately get better even at 39 and 40. So using that argument to say Bonds was using is not a valid argument. The cases both are the same, except writers liked Ortiz, hated Bonds.

          • GOAT right there…. I see what you did there “T Brady”

        • You are dead wrong. Ortiz was listed among over 100 players, 82 of which tested positive. Ironically, that list was probably leaked by Bonds attorneys. Read the Balco book and look at Bonds forehead and Ortiz’ lack of bulging steroid muscles.

          • You want to know what else is ironic? This rigged election is such #fakenews. Everyone is not voting for Omar Vizquel mostly because he “allegedly” sexually harassed a bat boy, BUT the forget Roger Clemens was banging a 15 year old girl! The My Pillow guy and I are going to expose – not expose-expose like Roger did with his, um, rocket, to an underage girl – the fraud in this rigged HOF election! I demand a recount! Dead writers voted! USA! USA! USA!

          • Well, also probably a little bit because Vizquel kind of sucked. There’s nothing astonishing in his numbers. There just isn’t. He was a good fielder but when a guy plays 73 years, he should at least rack up a hands-down, undeniable number like maybe 3000 hits. If you’re going to have no power and not much else to get you into the Hall, you should at least, be able to hit.

        • by the time bonds was 32 he had 3MVPs and 4 other top 5 finishes …thats before the “transformation” also joined the 400/400 club before that transformation …he was the best player u ever watched whether you admit it or not.

      • Ortiz is a no doubt Hall of Famer. First of all, MLB came out and said the tests were not accurate and then he NEVER tested positive again in his life. Second, you go out on a major league diamond, fighting wrist, back and Achilles injuries and let’s see how long you keep smacking 40-50 bombs. Especially when you miss weeks at a time with those injuries. The guy came back slowly from the first wrist injury and ended up smoking 28 on the year, in much less time than anyone else. Third, Carl Yastrzemski hit 40 homers or better 3 times in his 20s. He never even touched 30 the rest of his career. I’ll take the guy who fights through injury and may be the best clutch hitter in history over Barry Balco any day if the week.

        • Ima Big sox fan. Ortiz was a cry baby and dont really like him on many levels, but thats personal. That being said. Hall of famer all the way

          • Ima Big sox fan. Ortiz was a cry baby and dont really like him on many levels, but thats personal. That being said. Hall of famer all the way

          • I don’t remember him being much of a cry baby. Anybody who really takes the game seriously is going to get emotionally involved in it. I’d rather watch guys get pissed, upset and fired up than watch guys like Jackie Batless Jr strike out 5 times in 4 at bats and walk away like they don’t want to be there. You’re not going to like everyone but he’s a hands down HOFer. I can’t stand Ahole Rodriguez, Barry Bonds, Roger Clemens and especially that little bitch-face Bryce Harper but if the numbers are there…

        • Neither did bonds or Clemens so if ortiz is sure fire so are they and I despise people who never played the game dictating whether these icons get in or not, just like in a court of all innocent until proven guilty its guilty by association or because we believe u used that’s not how it works

        • Why do so many people keep saying Bonds never failed a test??? Were you all born last week? Look up the information before you rant. When the unsealed documents cane out from the Balco investigation, there were 4 failed tests for Bonds. The first three, between 2000-2001, showed anabolic steroids in his system. The fourth one, from 2003 showed several illegal steroid substances. MLB tested it and said they found it “clean”, but after further scrutiny, they had it tested by UCLA labs and, sure enough, it too was positive. Not testing positive after the MLB mandated program doesn’t mean he never tested positive obviously. The man was an amazing athlete. One of the best players ever to lace up spikes. And anyone who believes he was alone or among a select few superstars to juice, us delusional. But unlike many others, he did, IN FACT, test positive on multiple occasions. I’m sure there will now be several “Clemens did it, I know Piazza and Bagwell and Joe Babatz and Tommy Two Times” and so on, but if we’re dealing in proven reality, stop being a product of the social media era and try dealing in solid facts. I honestly don’t care that he used the steroids. So many guys did and it didn’t make them Hall of Fame-worthy so while it helps repair quickly to build strength, I’ll never believe it makes a player great. It doesn’t create high level skill if you don’t already have high level skill. If you can’t hold these things against the “Legends” already in, keeping out a handful of guys the writers don’t like doesn’t somehow “cleanse the soul” of the Hall. It’s already tainted and has been for decades. The only people who don’t “know” that are apparently the board at the Hall and any writer who doesn’t bite for the obvious choices. Let’s all get over this thing, accept the facts and move on. And put these guys in already. This just looks sillier and sillier for the Hall and the BBWAA.

          • Very well said. Let them in on merit. Others already in were no angels as well. From PED to racism etc…

          • It’s not about the test, it’s about what’s outside it, the connections. Everyone is loaded up, Ortiz is squeaky clean. They couldn’t find a connection outside of that test (which Manfred also said there’s at least 10 false positives) and Ortiz was in Boston for 13 years after that test and there’s not a single link anywhere.

        • Clemons, Bonds and Ortiz are all suspected of using PED’s. I personally think all 3 should be voted in but considering Ortiz is the only one that failed an MLB administered test he should be last on the list. But he was a larger than life role model and a very pleasant personality which the other 2 weren’t considered nice at all. this is nothing more than a popularity vote.

        • what test did barry fail??? ortiz can keep going out and hitting all those bombs as a dh sure no problem. …bonds was walked more than most guys hit each year and 85% of the time saw 1-2 pitches to hit a game and never missed them

        • if the Mitchell report wasn’t accurate then where’s the support for Sosa? He was named in the report and claims he never did PEDs too? There were a lot of guys named in the report who said it was False…but the only one you believe is Ortiz? Personally I don’t care about PEDS…I think players should be allowed to use them, but you can’t punish one guy on flimsy evidence, and then say another is clean with the same flimsy evidence.

      • I agree 100 % why are people so oblivious to his usage results and aged production and anger issues all signs of steroids and mlbs blind eye

        • Then why did he pass every test he ever took during these supposed years of “aged production”? I guess reality is just not part of the equation anymore these days?? And anger issues? Probably 30% if guys get pissed over bad plays, bad at bats, etc. Usually because they are disgusted over bad calls or bad decisions on their own part. People get pissed every day about things in their own lives. Maybe they yell, pout or bang a table, does that mean they are on steroids? Never heard of that.

          • He passes the tests because science is always ahead of the game. They all used and probably continue to use things that are not traceable. Let’s not be uneducated and let your fandom get in the way of common sense. It’s in every sport and will always be as long as they get paid as much as they do.

          • Not many of us don’t know that genius. The point wasn’t what we’re assuming, the point is what’s been proven. Cold hard facts, not your sorry attempt at sounding smarter than everyone else about stupid shit we all already know. There’s an apostrophe in you’re so I guess YOUR smarter than the rest of us.

          • Can you tell the story of baseball without Bonds, Clemens, A-Rod, etc? The answer is no! We have already inducted both Bud Selig and Tony LaRussa, both who turned a blind eye when they could have stopped it. As Jim Bowden stated on MLD radio the other day-“we have already elected players who took performance enhancers.” Steroids, like spitballs and amphetamines, are a part of the history of baseball.

          • Exactly. No one cared for years, suddenly it became a government problem and now we have the “woke” and holier than thou among us. Get a grip. Guys got over, got in the Hall already and there’s no way to change/fix the past. Put them in, tell the story of baseball and move on.

          • “Can you tell the story of baseball without Bonds, Clemens, etc.?” is the stupidest take on why they should be enshrined in the HOF. You can’t tell the story of the U.S.A. without talking about the atrocities of Andrew Jackson, but it doesn’t mean we have to put him on Mt. Rushmore.

          • Good God Woody. I love a solid analogy with a compelling argument as much as the next guy but Old Hickory was what appears to have been some version of a sociopath and a possibly deranged lunatic who severely hurt people with reckless decisions and barbaric actions. I can’t see how a guy taking performance enhancers is an equal comparison. Even if you could prove beyond a doubt that a guy like Clemens took them (which no one has), it wouldn’t remotely compare to blatantly attempting to wipe out an entire race of people or murder would it?

          • Sox fan

            Bonds never failed a test he used a legal substance before it was illegal but once testing started he never failed a test facts

          • Rein it in, with their professional demeanor and the allegations Bonds and Clemens faced in their personal lives, likely they carried sociopathic tendencies as well. Allegedly beating multiple women and allegedly sneaking around with 15 year old girls aren’t exactly the types of things straight shooters are accused of.

          • Keith, I didn’t say he failed MLB drug program tests. He failed at least 4 tests. For anabolic steroids and other substances. They were definitely illegal and also in MLB banned substance list since 1991. The positive are in the unsealed Balco documents and the last one was sent to UCLA by MLB in 2003 and was confirmed positive. Doesn’t matter if it wasn’t during MLB testing period, the point is he really tested positive multiple times. And definitely taken after the substances were banned. 2001-03. ACTUAL facts, from court records.

          • Rob, no one said straight shooters, just not enslavers and murderers. Bonds’ ex wife years back did say he beat her several times. The girl in Clemens case however, when admitting to the affair, also said she didn’t sleep with him until she was 18. Egotistical a-hole? Pretty doubtless but he also didn’t try to remove all native Americans from their native land. I’m just saying the comparison to Andrew Jackson might be slightly off balance. I don’t know them personally but, you’re right, they both seemed to be shady individuals from the public perspective. I just can’t see holding allegations without proof against them.

          • Good point sir. Actually I can’t see holding allegations against anyone without proof but then again I guess that’s where this country has gone now. So much for innocent until proven guilty I guess. Pretty much everywhere nowadays. Sad really.

      • We can’t account for steroids anymore for certain reasons..

        1- bud selig is in the hall of fame and he knew about the roids problem because it happened under his watch.

        2- ricky henderson, ivan rodriguez,mike piazza, tim raines were suspected of using drugs and roids and they’re in the hall.

        3- there are players in the hall of fame that played before 1947, a time where black and hispanic players weren’t allowed to play Major League Baseball due to the color of their skin.. I think thats worst that any steroid a player can take

        4- houston astros cheated in the worst way and got away with it meaning major league baseball is not the most ethical league.

        • Until there was a mandate, steroids weren’t a problem. Sure they add strength but foreign substances add spin. Catchers moving their gloves after the catch is technically cheating. Where the ball lands is the pitch location. THAT’S REALITY. But now it’s known as “framing” and we’re supposed to recognize it as a skill? Who decides all this crap??! Probably whoever decides guys like Clemens took the juice with no iron-clad proof. Without a failed test ever, who are these clowns to play God??

          • Framing pitches is cheating. Equivalent to pushing your horseshoe closer when no one’s looking. You must be a hoot at family gatherings.

          • Well I guess banging the neighbor’s wife isn’t cheating either, as long as you get away with it and put one over on the neighbor.

          • So what’s the rule broken and penalty applied for pitch framing?

            By your measure, managers arguing with the ump is cheating. This is a dumb argument.

          • “Framing” is crap. If the pitch is low and outbut the catcher can fool the ump quickly, that’s cool with you? That’s bush league garbage. If you don’t get it then maybe they should be drinking beers and smoking cigarettes in the dugout too. It’s pretty blatantly the equivalent of flopping in basketball. Crap move for people who can’t dominate.

          • You made the point. The guy’s point was not all cheating is called out. The writers are choosing to see what they want to see and the new brand of garbage stats push crap like “framing” because the last two generations of sports fans have nothing real to bring to the table so they embrace useless, made-up nonsense as modern “statistical analysis” while referring to the stats that have always made sense as “counting stats”. Call it what you want, it’s a sandlot move.

          • Managers arguing with the ump isn’t a little league attempt to fool someone standing behind your back. Not equal at all to “MOVING THE BALL REAL QUICK AND HOPING NO ONE NOTICED” I mean, “framing”. You’re right, that’s a dumb argument.

          • Whoa, the all caps swayed the argument.
            Use the PED legality all you want to without drooling into pitch framing for goodness sake. You’re not going to believe this, but players use a hidden ball trick in MLB too – I shudder to think the outrage. None of this relates to HOF whatsoever, which is why this is… just a dumb argument

          • Must be a nice little dream world where you can pick and choose what cheating means. No one said this so-called framing is the worst offense of all time. But let’s call a spade a spade and move on. Steroids were part of the game for a long time. Everyone knew it in 1988 when Canseco looked like Lou Ferrigno without the green makeup. Everyone knew it when McGwire and Sosa brought baseball back to life post-94, looking like WWF competitors. When it was making the game fun to watch, no one gave a damn. It was never a secret and only liars or complete morons can say they didn’t know. If it’s now going to be the argument to keep the best players of a generation where way more guys used it than we’ve been told, out of the “shrine” then please spare us the hidden ball trick rhetoric and have some dignity about it. Just say the game is lost now and the modern fan can’t appreciate anything that took effort (like actually being an awesome enough pitcher to not need the ball moved by the catcher) so we’re all doomed. Hey, maybe when NFL players try to move the ball further than where they landed or NBA guys step on the out of bounds line, those two leagues can just ignore it and call it something stupid like, I don’t know, framing maybe? If we can just explain away crap plays then let’s just refer to guys taking steroids as “Advil-ing” and talk about who was the best at it. I don’t think the guy was saying they were equal, pretty sure he was illustrating how easily some things are ignored.

          • Pretty sure ALL CAPS HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH WINNING AN ARGUMENT. It’s more likely utilized to stress an aspect of a conversation where one participant may change the vocal intonation at any given point in an effort to convey a different feeling. Hardly the effort if a keyboard-ridden sot. Here, it would be recognized as effective writing due to the unfortunate circumstance where we no longer partake of vocal conversations in the presence of others. We didn’t create this silly digital age, we solely have but to function in it.

          • I think all caps is for the people who don’t understand what they are talking about. It doesn’t work though, some people will always miss the point.

          • Baseball had banned steroid use in the early 90’s but didn’t actually test until about 2004

        • Your 3rd point is nothing. While it’s worse than any steroid you could take that has nothing to do with how good a player was. And as for you’re second point, Pudge was on roids but as far as I’m aware none of the others you listed were. The astros not getting punished is more of a manfred the bad problem. Also that was 1 year and the two guys on that team with a shot at the hall would probably make it if they didn’t cheat. The guys who took steroids when it was illegal (manny and arod) shouldn’t be in. And the guys who would only get in because of the steroid years shouldn’t be in either. That was cheating years it doesn’t count.

          • bill nye the science guy , as an insider, you can’t make it to the bigs without using steroids first of all. to say my 3rd point doesn’t mean anything means you are not colored, just imagine if that applied to gays or jews… imagine guys that can’t hit a 90 mph fastball deciding for guys that dedicate themselves to a sport. manny ramirez, sammy sosa, barry bonds, roger clemens, arod, all superheroes in my eyes! all made me love the game, a game that kids don’t love unless they have a father, i was fortunate. These guys are all hall of famers and lets face it, the steroids era is way better than the shift, analytics era which is by far cheating at a higher level.

          • Remember when Marty Barrett, Otis Nixon, Jimmy Piersall, Brett Butler and Lenny Harris were all taking steroids? What? You mean we’re not just throwing names off the wall and accusing them if shit???? This is boring.

          • Otis Nixon was a great advertisement for clearasil.

            Meanwhile, I was a dope pinch hitter. Got real good at sitting on my ass for two hours at a time. Thanks for remembering me! Let’s Go Brandon! And other cheers I’d rah rah everyone on.

        • Well said. Hippocritcal to not allow certain players but turning a blind eye to so many others.

      • I can’t quite fathom the lack of support for Todd Helton. The Coors field argument has become just another crutch. If you hold the thin air against guys who primarily played for the Rockies, do guys in the smoggiest, thickest air places get extra leniency for lesser production? Arizona, California, etc? I never heard any arguments stating the “amazing production” of a guy like Luis Gonzalez, for example since he played home games in that extra thick Arizona air… What a bunch of shit!

        • This is all garbage. Get rid of the voting, get rid of the writers association no one cares about and set criteria. .300, 500 homers, 3000 hits. 250 wins, 2700 Ks. Whatever they are. Not the writers, a panel of the greatest living players. Determine the criteria, set it in stone. Need to achieve at least 2 or 3 of these numbers. 4 or 5. Whatever. Let the panel agree on it whether it’s a number of certain stats or a combination of a few different ones. Achieve it and you’re in. No normal person who realizes this is a game and, like any game, will never be perfect, cares about any of the other bullshit. All these phony ass experts do is aggravate people. It’s not fun, it’s not good banter, it’s just annoying. And they’re ruining the product with their misinformed ideas if their voices mattering on some fake moral level.

        • Makes perfect sense. There are guys with a lot more home runs who played in fields with shorter distances. Compare heading home runs out of that short porch in old Yankee stadium for half of your career against the Polo Grounds. Why don’t we ever hear those comparisons? If you’re not going to take all geometric and physical factors into account for everyone, why hold it against guys who played in Colorado? 22 full time first baseman reside in Cooperstown. Among those 22, only three guys beat Helton’s career numbers and all the major categories. Those three guys are Jimmy Foxx, Stan Musial and Lou Gehrig. That’s pretty amazing company. If he were elected, out of 22 guys, Helton would be 9th all time in hits, 12th all time in home runs, 14th all time in RBIs, 6th all time in OBP, 9th all time in average. Only Stan Musial has more doubles as a first baseman. In fact Helton is 20th all time in doubles among all players at every position. He’s also 37th all time in walks and tied for 57th all time in batting average among all players ever in Major League baseball. That’s almost 19,000 people! This all seems very simple yet he doesn’t even have 60% of the vote. What is it, exactly, that would keep a guy like this out of the Hall of Fame? There are obviously other guys that beat him in one number or another but do not have the overall compilation as a whole. I thought it was pretty strange to completely ignore a guy like Paul Konerko, who put up some pretty impressive numbers himself but most of them not at the same level as this. Then of course, Fred McGriff should have gone in long ago. When is this Insanity going to stop???

          • Yeah definitely worth looking at. Some field dimensions have been pretty crazy over the years. Imagine anyone taking into account the difference between guys aiming at a left field corner of 318 ft in Yankee stadium or a 388 ft left field corner in Griffith stadium. Or take a good look at guys hitting out of Tropicana Field at 315 in left, 404 in center in 322 in right and compare that to guys who had to hit out of municipal stadium at 463 in left 470 in center and 463 in right. Coors Field may have this theoretical thinner air but it also has some of the longer left and right field fences at 347 and 350 ft. At least in today’s game. Fenway has some of the craziest dimensions ever. Only 310 to left working up to 390 in center but you have to hit it over a 37 ft high wall. And then it’s 420 to the corner of that triangle. In Houston you go 315 to left, 409 and center and 326 in right. But you also have the benefit of someone banging trash cans to tell you when to swing.

      • Bonds was a 3 time mvp should have won rookie of the year and still holds ASU baseball records, all before the ERA! That’s a MVP resume period! 30 HRs a tear for 13 years…

      • They were both juicing. Using a “clear” type of drug that is not detectable by the tests. That is the most probable scenario.

    • My thoughts are that about 10-12 of these guys should be in based on their on-field accomplishments. This 1st ballot, 2nd ballot etc nonsense means nothing. Either you were one of the best of your time or not. Steroids??? Are you joking? They don’t give magical powers of pitch selection or pitch location. You still have to be pretty awesome to pull it off at the highest level and for any longevity. The Hall of Fame voting process has unfortunately been a joke for a long time now. Dominated by clowns who think writing about sports makes them gods, with powers to decide the fates of those who’ve accomplished things they couldn’t dream of accomplishing. It will be another year of unjustifiable snubs and political maneuvering while we wait for the veterans committee to eventually correct all the wrongs.

      • “Voting shall be based upon the player’s record, playing ability, integrity, sportsmanship, character, and contributions to the team(s) on which the player played.”

        That’s what the writers have to work with. It’s not be their fault if they don’t vote for cheaters or dirtbags. At least according to that definition, it’s not. I would be all for taking out “integrity, sportsmanship, and character. But that’s what’s there.

        • Doesn’t mean they have to use it as a crutch to back up personal agendas. In the cases of Bonds, Clemens and even Schilling, the “records, playing ability, and contributions to their teams” far outweigh the other criteria you mention. If a guy has Abreu or Helton numbers, maybe closer to borderline, and he’s a complete a-hole, ok, maybe that sinks him. When a guy has historical numbers, dominates and helps teams win at championship levels consistently, kind of hard to argue. Besides, no proof means no proof. Assuming Clemens juiced is good enough? Keeping Schilling out over his political beliefs? Doesn’t sound real American. Sounds more like some other political standpoints we supposedly don’t stand for in this country. Sounds like discrimination when you have no tangible proof or when you just don’t like someone’s beliefs. Harder to argue Bonds since he actually admitted to the cream and clear. Also since incriminating docs turned up in the Balco debacle. Yet he has more votes than the other two? Only in America, as they used to say?

          • I can buy that. I would agree that playing-time accomplishments should be worth 80%of the vote. But do the writers? I wouldn’t know about their personal agendas. I’m not a mind reader. The problem seems to be that the definition they have to work with is WAY WAY to open to interpretation. If left the way it is, Bonds doesn’t deserve to get it. If it was more specific maybe a lot of writers would have a harder time using their biases and personal feelings.

          • Then you’re basically making the argument that the writers are too stupid to know the difference between right and wrong on their own if they need to be told exactly what to do. All the more reason this is a severely flawed system. It seems extremely stupid to start leaving guys out now based on personal off the field behaviors and things of that nature when there are so many guys already in who would clearly defy that logic. So how does that get fixed? This argument goes on forever because no one who can do anything about it has any intention of fixing it. Just a lazy attitude toward present and future voting which does nothing for the product in the actual Hall of Fame and nothing for us as baseball fans. I understand what you’re saying I just think, from the standpoint that the writers can’t discern between right and wrong, fair and unfair, it’s beyond ridiculous at this point.

          • no arguments on any of that HOOVER. seems idiotic. it’s all a shame. inconsistent. The only way to fix it is to enforce only voting on Baseball accomplishments. because this day and age the dirt on everyone is always going to come out.

          • Good to see another person with a brain Betty. I think you’re right about the day and age but there is so much made up garbage out there that we don’t know what to believe anymore. I believe this is best handled by a veterans committee. But not necessarily voting. They should lay down a list of numbers that, as former great players, they believe are Hall of Fame worthy numbers. If guys hit certain numbers or a combination of certain other numbers they are automatically in. That’s it. Tell the story of baseball because that’s what the Hall of Fame is for. Baseball writers have no more knowledge than the average intelligent fan. They just get paid to pretend they do. It would be pretty similar to having elementary school students teaching the classes instead of taking them. Unless you’ve cracked 2500 hits, 350 home runs and 500 doubles, please just shut up, sit back and enjoy it. But please don’t tell me what it takes to do it. Please Don’t judge my morality or the way I handle a press conference until you’ve walked a mile in my shoes. Maybe some minor league reporter did a terrible story about me once and turned me off completely to being able to trust the media. Maybe I am not very confident in public speaking and don’t trust myself to speak to the media and it has been misconstrued as me being an American jerk. And please don’t tell me you’ve decided I took steroids when no one has any tangible proof that I did. Who are any of these writers to play Magnum PI or Sam Spade and decide what really happened or not without proof? Is God in the BBWAA?? If not, then no one else knows for sure without proof and voting shouldn’t be done by suspicion.

    • Here’s how stupid this whole thing is, Todd Helton and Jeff Kent easily bury the accomplishments of Scott Rolen. In every category. Except for homers, so does Bobby Abreu. None of them “tainted by PEDs”, yet, Rolen is nearly on pace for induction and the others are way behind him. What a blatant joke. Will this ever be fixed? Doubtful. The voting would have to be completely taken from the hands of the writers and given to a reliable source. These idiots will always misuse this power for personal and political reasons.

      • Except for the part where Rolen won 8 gold gloves at third, compared to average to terrible defense at 2nd for Kent, and Helton is a 1st baseman.

        • Kind of hard to hold defense against anyone if Edgar Martinez, Harold Baines and soon enough, David Ortiz will go in. And the part where Helton and Kent each had 400+ more hits, drove in more runs and out homered. doubled and obp’d Rolen by pretty solid margins. I hardly think either of them let up enough runs defensively to outweigh the offensive upsides. Also, not saying Rolen isn’t worthy, but if he is, easily so are they.

          • Agreed (on like ALL your comments, I was having trouble picking one to respond to)!! Thank you for being someone who makes sense!

        • If gold gloves are the answer then why are Mattingly and Keith Hernandez not in? Both pretty comparable careers to Rolen. Don won 9 gold gloves while Keith won 11. Oh yeah, they also each won an MVP, which I believe is one more each than Rolen. And just fir fun, what kept Jim Kaat out so long? That guy won 16 gold gloves to go with a pretty solid pitching resume!

      • Don’t just base this on offense, Look at Rolen’s superior defense. I actually believe all 3 should be HOF’ers… Kent is getting the shaft because he was not likeable to the media. (similar to Schilling) He hit the most HR;s of any 2nd baseman in history! Not a great defender, but the HR record is quite a feather in his cap. I believe Helton will get in eventually, even though his Home/road splits are troubling.

      • Rolen has a higher WAR than both Kent and Helton. He has 8 GGs compared to 3 for Helton and zero for Kent. Rolen has an 855 OPS which is identical to Kent’s and also the same as Helton’s OPS “on the road”. Rolen’s OPS+ (127) is higher than Kent’s.(123). Helton’s is (133).
        I believe all 3 belong in. I believe Rolen has the strongest case, due to his defensive value.

        • There are several mentions throughout this thread of Rolen’s 8 Gold Gloves and other guys having none or fewer. First of all, Rolen never played another position besides third base. Kent played multiple positions on the field and, mainly, a position with more ground to cover than Rolen. Rolen won Gold Gloves for beating other 3rd sackers out over the years, not for beating out second baseman. Kent may never gave been the top second baseman in the league but if you want to compare him to Rolen, stop looking at awards and look at real numbers. They both played 17 seasons. Kent handled almost 11,000 chances at various positions while Rolen handled roughly 5700 all at third. That’s over 5000 more chances handled by Kent in the same time period and guess what the difference in total errors is…. about 50 I believe. Somewhere in that range. Lastly, Kent’s fielding percentage in 5000 more chances was actually 10 points higher than Rolen’s. Enough with the Scott Rolen Gold Glove nonsense already. WAR, JAWS, MVPs, Gold Gloves, this all means shit. It’s why the meaningful stats always existed. They show exactly what guys did. All that other garbage is ancillary.

          • Love this.
            Rolen at 186 errors in 5736 = 3.24%
            Jeff Kent 236 errors in 10970= 2.15%
            Kent gets my vote if I had one

          • Thanks Charles, kind of hard to understand why people have such difficulty looking at real numbers instead of blanket garbage that doesn’t tell the whole story. Thanks for your vote!

          • This is where a poor understanding of fielding percentage. First off, 2nd basemen, on average, will see many more chances than 3rd baseman. Chances does not equate to ability, though. The reason Rolen had many more errors was because his range allowed him to get to many more balls than most 3B could get to. If you never get to a ball because your range is limited, it goes as a 0/0 in fielding opportunity/error. Not exactly enlightening. That’s why people started to measure things beyond pure fielding percentage, and derived metrics like “defensive runs saved” and “total runs above average” to see how good a player was versus peers. This also put an emphasis on more difficult plays vs. routine outs (i.e., if a player gets an out on a play that is not expected to result in an out, it gets weighed heavier vs. plays that were routine that a player bumbled). No matter the metric, Rolen was one of the best. For his career, he averaged 14 runs saved per 1200 innings (roughly 135 games) and had a total runs saved for his career of 140, and a saved runs above replacement player of 116.

            Kent by contrast was a -9 runs saved per 1200 innings, had a total run saved of -3, and total above replacement player of -52. And, despite his fielding pct. being higher than Rolen’s for his career, there is not a traditional scout in the world who would ever have looked at Kent and thought he was anything but a sub-par fielder. I am a life long Giants fan, and appreciated having Kent on the team (and do feel his hitting prowess should garner him more attention than he has received), but I’m never going to stan for his fielding.

            Point being, contrary to your assertion, fielding percentage is not a meaningful stat (without context), and modern statisticians have worked to correct that. You can argue as much as you want that it proves he’s a better fielder, but it simply does not.

          • These metrics are crap. First of all, the game had no problem without nonsensical “stats” until people who needed to feel like they improved something came along and exacted their short attention span anger on a beautiful game. Pitch clocks are garbage, not actually throwing fir intentional walks us crap and all these “modern metrics” and “analytics” are useless. Games aren’t won by algebra, but they are very often won by some guy who your stupid metrics show has no power but somehow blasts a three-run bomb in the bottom of the 9th. And bullshit metrics don’t predict that. They also don’t really say anything about rubs saved. Unless the ball goes by the guy, you have no idea if a run would have scored or not, which makes it one more hypothetical pike of garbage. And if your argument is that a guy gets more chances handled dye to having better range, how does that edge go to Rolen? He handled 5000 fewer chances than Kent in the same amount of seasons, so I guess he’d have the better range? Slice it how you want but Rolen, a good fielder, but in no way so much incredibly better than Kent that would justify the difference in their vote totals. And, as seems to be often unrealized in this ridiculous day and age, saying it simply does not, doesn’t mean it’s true.

          • Hey better yet, maybe one of these people who think the analytics/metrics are so fool-proof could break down the last 50 World Series results and show all of us idiots out here, who somehow have survived and loved decades of baseball without this shit, how well they confirmed the winning results ahead of time. Because, really, that’s the bottom line. Winning it all. Please show us how many “runs above average” and hypothetical “runs saved” leaders hit that game winner or recorded the final strikeout of the October (November) Classic. For most of us, math was something we hurried up and finished so we could go play baseball. Not something we tried to incorporate and ruin the fun with for no reason at all. Good luck with the bright future of Nerdball. Sounds like a real blast

    • Why have I been waiting 10 years when no one ever proved a damn thing about me??? Some of y’all are “misremembering” the innocent until proven guilty thing. Oh yeah, and my 7 Cy Young awards!

      • I’m with you on that “Rocket!” Don’t forget about those TWO 20 K games either!

      • I would beat you in a foot race. And a hot dog eating contest.

        • ED, tell that to the young country singer he had the affair with. That should help his morals clause in the HOF voting.

          • The “young country singer” is Mindy McCready, (see name in comment you answered). But once again, what are we voting on here? Mindy admitted to the affair and also that we didn’t have sex until after she was 18. Not illegal. Did I cheat on my wife? Obviously. That’s between us and we’ve resolved our issues privately. No one else’s problem. Am I the only player to ever make that mistake in the history of almost 19,000 MLB players? What do you think? Are there no womanizers in the Hall of Fame? Ask the Babe. Ask Wade Boggs. Take a poll. Where did this strange pedestal suddenly come from that we’re all suddenly supposed to stand on? Have none of you ever screwed up and had to move in from there? I don’t owe the public any explanation for my PRIVATE life. Between me and my family. Being celebrities doesn’t give the media or anyone else privilege to our private lives. It only makes y’all THINK you have that right. Why? Because you pay money to see us? Someone pays you to go to work. Do you need to then tell them every intimate detail of your life? I doubt it. It’s your business just like mine is my business. You don’t want to vote me in? Then don’t. Does it look like it’s affecting my life? I know what I accomplished and so does any real fan of actual baseball with brains enough to realize I’m just a man. A man who played a game, played it really well and entertained the hell out of them. Men also make mistakes in life and have to deal with them their own way. Not how some idiot writer thinks they should. I don’t dictate your piece of crap, waste of life to your sniveling little ass so why would I listen to what you think I should say? There’s no reason at all. Why would you want an apology from someone who is just saying it to shut you up? Are you that entitled in your delusional little pine nut if a brain? It’s only lio service. The fact that so many of you take lip service apologies from celebrities at face value in exchange for getting off their asses shows just how deranged y’all really are. Sounds like the younger generation is trying to control people they don’t pay for that right. And that sounds like an illegal practice we got rid of in this country long ago. Maybe I’ll talk to Rusty about some new law suits now that I’m on this train of thought. Keeping me out of your little museum doesn’t change me being one of the top 5 pitchers EVER. And in 70 years, if I’m not on that wall, why will I care? I’ll be dead!

          • I hear you loud and clear Rocket. I thought Baseball Hall of Fame had something to do with his we played baseball. Never realized the BBWAA and their apologists are actually the people God out in charge of determining sainthood qualifications.

      • Rocket, I agree with you, you should have been in after your 5 year wait. I am a S. F. Giants fan, (sorry about that), but I watched you pitch a lot. And every chance I got, I would watch any game to see you pitch. You were one of the greatest of all time. I used to love watching Bonds hit, see ball and hit ball. I don’t think PED’s really helped with hand eye coordination. You still have to see ball and hit ball, and he did that his whole career. Good luck to you both. I hope the HOF finally gets it right, and puts 2 of the greatest players of all time into the HOF. Now to work on Rose. LOL

      • A plaque on the wall is just an extra award given to retired players. It’s not something that you’re entitled to, no matter what your numbers say. You can not prove that you’re worthy with statistics. It’s subjectively handed out to those selected, and nothing more.

    • Honestly I’ve said it. If you want to put steroid users in the hall of fame go ahead but they get a seperate wing and a seperate ceremony. They shouldn’t be allowed to be in the plaque gallery with other players who didn’t mark the game and pad their numbers using banned substances.

      • Well how do exclude the players already in who allegedly used steroids. The problem with your recommendations and similar ones along the same criteria lines. Is it’s likely a vast majority of players were using PED’S in that period. Most of which weren’t band or tested for until 2003. Basically your recommendation promotes discrimination of players suspected of PED’S use and those suspended for there use. The starting point should be a positive test through MLB after 2003 and a suspension for the use of PED’S after 2003. Anything else from this report here, to lab over there that said so and so tested for this or that or the other thing. This steroid use issue has been all over the place for 10 years plus and still no standard consensus on it, it’s actually a mockey of the HOF voting process.

          • Hey Crime Dog. You got no receipts for your wild accusations.

          • Yeah Biggio was a house. Clearly a juicer. And it helped him hit those 500 home runs too!…????

      • Then you need a separate wing for racists, wife beaters, druggies, alcoholics and anyone who found any way to get one over on the playing field like pine tar guys, cork guys, spit, tobacco, sandpaper or anything else to alter the ball, guys who purposely injured other guys with dirty slides and after you sort them all out, you can open up the Pete Rose wing since he’s the all-time hits leader we may never see again and not only does gambling pale in comparison to other things, but those mf-ing hypocrites at MLB are now pushing the hell out of it.

        • Separate wing? Why don’t they build themselves a separate hall? They sure made enough money. They could have a giant syringe in the courtyard, plaques of the best drug-dealers, and a statue of a flaccid penis with a shriveled ballsack.

        • If we have separate wings for each of those things, we need one more wing for all the shitbag executives/owners/coaches who knew all the things that went on and allowed them…….. Or we could just remove our heads from our collective ass and get over it. It’s a friggin game and probably more than 3/4 of the people who’ve played it can be found to have broken rules at some point. Either put them in or don’t, but if you don’t, you should rename it because without the greatest players to ever play, it’s just a Funhouse of Bullshit.

      • I agree 110%. I don’t want them in the HOF but making it separate (and more than just an asterisk*) seems fair enough.


      • Well in actually the sportswriters who are still promoting discriminatory practices aren’t they with the steroids. Everyone has moved on with the steroids except them. The bottom line it was part of baseball for 10 yrs or more and you cant vote or not vote it away.. Thinking your voting for one guy instead of another because one allegedly used a unbanned supplement or one didn’t. You better be damn sure the players did or didn’t use them. Not this finger pointing game.

        • Not Everyone…. In a vote of the veteran players currently in the Hall of Fame, I doubt even Willie Mays would vote for his God son, and I know WAY less than 75% of them would. Plus, Please leave next summer’s induction ceremony to true men of class: Tony Oliva and Jim Kaat

          • Well once we get that stainless steel DeLorean with the Flux Capacitor running, we can go back and watch those Hall of Famers you speak of and count the amphetamines they didn’t take by the handful, as admitted to by Hall of Famers themselves. Then we’ll have them tell us from the windows of their glass houses, who they think should be in. There’s no science to determining who did what off the field in every generation so it’s time to pack away the feigned shock over bullshit ethics that the game has NEVER stood for and put the top guys in when they come along. Otherwise, someone open a Hall of Saints and cast the first stone. I believe there is one already, it’s called Heaven and has it’s own criteria so let’s have the”all-knowing writers” stop playing God and just vote the obvious superstars in to their rightful spots. Not as ordained ministers, as the best to ever play this mistake-ridden pastime we love so much and accept it for what it is, a Hall of Fame for a game played by humans who fuck up in this life.

    • Barry Bonds research and statistics I gathered. He’s a legend !!!

      Check out the stats…kinda jaw dropping

      Bonds is arguably the 1st, 2nd or 3rd greatest baseball player of all time.

      1st all time in:
      • HRs
      • Walks
      • Intentional Walks

      1996 RBIs – 6th all time

      2227 runs – 3rd all time. Behind only Ty Cobb and Rickey Henderson

      5976 total bases – 4th all time. Behind only Aaron, Musial and Mays.

      Only guy in the 500 / 500 club

      Won 7 MVPs – no one is even close.

      All these guys won 3 MVPs:

      Mike Trout
      Albert Pujols

      Bonds won 3 MVPs in 4 years from 1990 – 1993 ( and got robbed in 1991 by Terry Pendleton). He should have won 4 in a row.

      He won 3 without the juice with that long list of Hall of Famers.

      In 1998, Bonds became the only member of the 400 / 400 club. That’s a rare combination of speed and power with 400 homers and 400 stolen bases.

      At that moment he was a shoe in for the Hall of Fame with his body of work in 1998. He likely still was 2 years out from ever messing with PEDs as the allegations and spike in his stats began in 2000 / 2001.

      Again, steroid free his whole career up to this point and becomes the only member of the 400 / 400 club. Insane !!!

      Then he went on to win 4 straight MVP awards in 2001 – 2004 for a grand total of 7 MVPs over his career !!!!

      Oh yeah…he won his first batting title in 2002 batting 0.370 and then again in 2004 batting 0.362

      14 years an all star

      8 gold gloves.

      Only member to this day of the 400/400 club and all done clean.

      Later member and only person in the 500/500 club.

      Barry Bonds …a total bad ass !!!!

      Barry Bonds research and statistics I gathered. He’s a legend !!!

      Check out the stats…kinda jaw dropping

      Bonds is arguably the 1st, 2nd or 3rd greatest baseball player of all time.

      1st all time in:
      • HRs
      • Walks
      • Intentional Walks

      1996 RBIs – 6th all time

      2227 runs – 3rd all time. Behind only Ty Cobb and Rickey Henderson

      5976 total bases – 4th all time. Behind only Aaron, Musial and Mays.

      Only guy in the 500 / 500 club

      Won 7 MVPs – no one is even close.

      All these guys won 3 MVPs:

      Mike Trout
      Albert Pujols

      Bonds won 3 MVPs in 4 years from 1990 – 1993 ( and got robbed in 1991 by Terry Pendleton). He should have won 4 in a row.

      He won 3 without the juice with that long list of Hall of Famers.

      In 1998, Bonds became the only member of the 400 / 400 club. That’s a rare combination of speed and power with 400 homers and 400 stolen bases.

      At that moment he was a shoe in for the Hall of Fame with his body of work in 1998. He likely still was 2 years out from ever messing with PEDs as the allegations and spike in his stats began in 2000 / 2001.

      Again, steroid free his whole career up to this point and becomes the only member of the 400 / 400 club. Insane !!!

      Then he went on to win 4 straight MVP awards in 2001 – 2004 for a grand total of 7 MVPs over his career !!!!

      Oh yeah…he won his first batting title in 2002 batting 0.370 and then again in 2004 batting 0.362

      14 years an all star

      8 gold gloves.

      Only member to this day of the 400/400 club and all done clean.

      Later member and only person in the 500/500 club.

      Barry Bonds …a total bad ass !!!!

      • No one denies the numbers Bonds put up. How he did it was obviously a different matter. Either way, MVP awards are a pretty useless measurement for player accomplishment. Ted Williams easily deserved AT LEAST 4 more and was clearly screwed by not being “nice” to writers. (DiMaggio’s 56 was impressive but not nearly as impressive as batting .400. If it was, he’d have batted higher than Williams.) Also, no one could win more than one until after 1931. Think Ruth, Cobb, Speaker, Wagner wouldn’t have piled up more? Not to mention countless other popularity contests over the years or someone winning on a shitty team. How valuable can you be if your team is losing???? If I hit 80 bombs for a fourth place team, what was my value there? Keeping a crappy team in fourth place and definitively out of contention anyway? Should be separate awards for best offensive producer and an actual MVP who drives the team to success, not mediocrity. Seems so simple yet, missed by so many. Probably the same many keep screwing up the Hall of Fame voting

          • It’s a good case Adams but we only assume he was clean to 1998. Maybe he was maybe he wasn’t, nobody was looking to test anyone back then. He certainly showed it a lot more physically later on but there were already a ridiculous amount of guys taking stuff back then. Honestly, I don’t care either way. It was part of the game at a time where it was certainly prevalent throughout the entire game. He definitely was one of the greats and belongs in either way.

      • You can list the numbers all day long. And they were incredible, sure. But it’s HOW he got them is not ok & (a purely personal) issue I have with him is that he STILL lies about what we all KNOW to be true. It’s just sad. He doesn’t deserve to be in the HOF. Thankfully, likely (and hopefully but likely) that percentage currently on the list above will drop significantly as more ballots are casts!

        • How many times did Bonds test positive? Zero. Best player of all time, he should have even a unanimous 1st ballot HOFer. The BPWAA is a joke and needs to be replaced.

          • he admitted to using “clear” a PED designed to cheat the testing process!

        • Bonds didn’t fail any tests because every time he was supposed to be tested he was on the IR. Players could not be tested while on the IR. Just saying! He doesn’t deserve to go. Clemens doesn’t deserve it. Ortiz, hmmm? Wonder why he was on the IR so much too. That’s right, he couldn’t be tested while on the IR. Fact!!!

          • Bonds was the greatest players of all time. He deserves to be in, period.

          • Uh oh you knew?

            It’s ok though now, right? For some reason nobody care about me pumping juice until after we won the WS and Manny and me were taking horse scrotum pills. Got those in Venezuela on a vacation doing my favorite BelBivDevoe karaoke on a cruise ship. I like bananarama in my mama, you know what I mean?

          • It’s a good theory but it doesn’t explain why Ortiz’s production was hindered by wrist back and achilles injuries. If he was on the DL to hide from testing, wouldn’t he come back crushing it because of all the steroids he was hiding? Something doesn’t add up there…

          • Ortiz failed a test. He admitted that the MLB Players association told him he failed…

          • But he didn’t admit to using. He says he had no idea how he failed it. “Slight” difference there. And MLB backed him up saying many of those tests like the one he failed, were inaccurate and several were probably incorrect. On the other hand, admissible or not, documentation seized in the Balco investigation showed Bonds having steroids actively in his system at multiple different times. And he admitted to using it. Obviously not the same case. It was part of the game for a long time and you don’t just stop something and expect it to go away in 3 seconds. They accomplished what they accomplished in an era where more guys than not were doing something, whatever it was, to get an edge. The Hall of Fame will certainly be a lesser place for not having the greatest players of the so-called PED era. If for no other reason than preserving that part of history. No one leaves the Hall of Fame thinking they got shafted because Pud Galvin’s plaque doesn’t say that he used a testosterone elixir made from horse testicles. Everyone gleefully forgets the suspicion surrounding Mickey Mantle’s “abscess” during the 1961 home run race. Guys started using steroids after the Russian weightlifting team made it popular in the mid 50s. The difference was no one cared. No one cared for the next 50 years. Not the fans, not the owners, not the writers and certainly not MLB. It made the product fun to watch and we all joked about it. Canseco looked like an action star in the ’80s and everyone loved him. McGwire looked like a mountain in the 98 home run race on the entire nation continued to cheer him on. Suddenly we are all blue-nosed Puritans??? C’mon.

    • Why is anyone arguing the case of Omar Vizquel? Scroll way down and it’s actually a conversation for some reason. The guy had 2800 hits in about a million at bats, batted a robust career two-seventy-shit and consistently did nothing amazing except show up every day for 60 years and play pretty good defense. If only he could hit big league pitching like he hit some other things…

      • I, the real and true Omar Vizquel, have asked people here on the Internet to stop saying I should be in the hall of fame. You can tell it’s really me, because I said true. Sort the candidates by OPS and see I am the worst hitter amongst all them, barely above the pitchers. Half of my seasons were <= 2 WAR (i.e = 4 WAR (i.e. >= All Star caliber). But maybe numbers nor reasonable perceptions matter anymore in a world where Harold Baines is listed among the greats and Bonds is not.

    • Hey listen up everybody, this is Rock Raines with a final plea for integrity. I don’t know if Yawkey and Landis agree because they refuse to acknowledge I’m here and Cobb has tried to kill me a few times now, but we don’t need no f-ing steroids in this place. Those guys—-ah,ooh,geez—sorry, tripped over some bottles Paul Waner and Hack Wilson left laying around, anyway, if you start putting nogoodniks like that in here, “hey Speaker, is that a Halloween costume?”, Sorry about that, ol’ Tris just ran by with a strange white hood on. As I was saying, if we start allowing guys to get—–oooh geez, Babe and Boggs are at it again, “hey you guys, leave those poor broads alone” —– if we just let anyone in, “Hey Molitor, anymore Coke left over there? I sure am “thirsty.”” Where was I? Oh yeah, keep it clean man, we don’t need to start shitting up this place with substance abusers like Bonds and Clemens. Gibson is afraid they might be interested in the bowl of “candies” he has over there and Mantle says he’s not sharing any of his “clear” with Bonds. Just some thoughts from a humble man of integrity…..

      • Timmy R is great at impersonations and compelling arguments, if I don’t say so myself

        • Thanks Timmy, hold on a minute Pete Rise is knocking at the door but I can’t hear what he’s saying over the noise of the mlb-sanctioned bookies yelling out the odds…

        • Sorry guys, I was interrupted by Pise Rete. Totally different guy from Pete Rose, he has a big curly handlebar mustache.

    • I am glad that Bonds Clemens and Ortiz look god; I hope they stick, but I don’t understand Helton and Kent trailing the pack. George Kell was a hero when he played, but so were Lou Whitaker and Luis Tiant. .Hodges would have looked better if he went in with the Duke, but there’s no FAME without Clemens and Bonds.

    • The real issue is why the heck is Curt Schilling not in already? His off field comments have nothing to do with his in field performance. If you have Ty Cobb in the HOF then off the field issues shouldn’t sway the vote.

    • Writers elected Walter Maranville and missed on Carlos Delgado, Luis Tiant, Rafael Palmeiro, Tommy John, but we have Jesse Haines, Chick Hafey, Ray Schalk and Rick Ferrell. I go for support the inner workings but Jeff Kent and Todd Helton should be up with Bonds and Clemens and all should go in…

    • Simply put, we’re talking about a group of idiots who spent years not putting Fred McGriff in the Hall. Without even looking at any of his other numbers, 493 home runs is all you need to hear. Save all your rhetoric about wars and jaws and the southern made up crap that came along in recent years. Let’s see your stupid computer hit 493 home runs. These ass-clowns will never get this right again. Yes there have been far too many obvious guys who should have been in unanimously but at least there were always more than enough intelligent writers to keep it mostly realistic. I must have missed the explosion that wiped out so many brains, rendering it impossible to get Hall of Fame voting correct anymore. Imagine being so stupid that you think you’re warped opinion of someone’s personality or you’re ridiculous view of analytical nonsense created by nerds justifies you keeping real Hall of famers out of the Hall of fame? Forget it folks, the lights have finally gone out on Broadway.

    • This whole process has gotten far beyond ridiculous. For those who don’t know the history of this game, which apparently includes a large contingent of so-called baseball writers, the Hall of Fame is already filled with drug-fueled superstars. John Milner Shawn amphetamines in Willie Mays’s locker. It is widely suspected that Mickey Mantle’s abscess in 1961 was caused by the quack Doctor who injected him with steroids. Goose Gossage, Mike Schmidt, Bob Gibson and even the great Henry Aaron among others, have all admitted to use of illegal substances. And none of them were the beginning. Go way back to Pud Galvin and even before the advent of anabolic steroids, he was known to take an elixir form of steroid made from testosterone of horse testicles among other things. Keep on voting these guys out if you want to but you look like a bunch of idiots who know nothing about this game.

        • Amphetamines. In fact Aaron said it made him feel like he was having a heart attack and he supposedly never did it again after that, but it didn’t stop him from trying and obviously the implication is he would have kept doing it had it not sped him up so badly that it scared the hell out of him. And Gibson added that if steroids were widely available to him and he knew where to get them, he would probably have used them as well because other guys were out there getting an edge so why shouldn’t he? He said he would like to think that he wouldn’t have done it but he’s pretty sure he would have.

          • In Ball Four, a book written by Jim Bouton formerly of the Seattle Pilots and the New York Yankees he goes into great detail about how readily available “Greenies” were in Major League Clubhouses. In the 60’s and 70’s. It was no secret that many of the leagues top players were using amphetamines to get through the grueling 162 game season.

            Steroids weren’t illegal and weren’t made a banned substance until 1991 and weren’t tested for until 2003. If MLB decided that Red Bull or Gatorade enhanced players ability to perform (which by definition they do) should everyone who used either of those drinks be retroactively punished?

            Bonds and Clemens are the best ever at what they do. There is no pitcher from the mid 80s on who dominated the game like The Rocket and steroids or not Bonds is the best Home Run hitter in history. Steroids don’t make you hit a ball better and don’t make you strike batters out any easier. They both deserve a spot in the Hall even if you just go off their numbers prior to any suspicion of PEDs.

          • Amphetamines are legal with a prescription. But the point really isn’t legality. The point is the writers withholding votes for the guts they think got a leg up from enhancers. So did the “Greenie” guys so you why hold it against anyone when it wasn’t held against those guys? I’ve made your same argument over and over again Hammer. While they can help your body repair, give you bursts of energy, etc., no drug gives you skill. Bonds, Clemens and others belonged in long ago. If the writers are claiming morality issues, that’s crap because, illegal or not, plenty of other guys did this stuff before and it was known but ignored because of the awesome spectacle it helped create. 10 foot fishing nets aren’t illegal and I doubt there is a specific provision in the rule book to prohibit them but I’ve never seen anyone pick one up at the wall and just rob home runs all day.

          • Hammer, The Babe overate especially hot dogs. What if they found something in hot dogs that improved his eye sight or bat speed? Maybe some of these substances act reverse to what we think and the players would have been even better? Do we know anyone who definitely did not do a foreign substance to get an edge? What about Jeter? We all think he is clean as can be. Are we sure? What about Mariano? Forget him, he’s too good and religious. I believe him that he never touched anything.

    • Obviously flawed process. The fact that Schilling is well behind last year’s pace can only mean one thing… This is fraudulent. If you voted for him last year, how do you not this year? Did he secretly play under a pseudonym and rack up a terrible season we don’t know about? Clearly you’d only rescind your vote because you think someone else was more deserving (not likely in this new class but for Ortiz) or because you don’t like his personal opinions . This is the likely case which means some guys are irresponsibly not voting on baseball merit and should not be allowed to vote any longer. No one cares what you think of a player’s personal or political opinions. No one really cares what you think about anything actually, it’s only because somehow, some cowards at the Hall of Fame don’t want to admit and correct the egregious error that leaves the fates of the game’s immortals in the hands of self-important ass-hats who can’t bear to fathom how irrelevant their opinions really are in the overall scheme of this life. Hey Hall of Fame, are you guys serious??? Is this really going to keep going like this??? You’re tainting your own product by allowing it to be a popularity contest.

    • There must be an awful lot of crack being smoked among the BBWAA. Clemens continues dropping, Schilling not climbing, Jeff Kent being treated like he was Jeff Blauser. How do you sleep at night knowing you’re basically a vindictive little child inside, wasting the opportunity you’ve been handed (in spite of your idiocy), keeping guys out of the Hall who EVERYONE knows belong in it? Must be exciting to be a useless tool, imagining yourself to be far more important than you really are. Taking out your “woke” frustrations on people you can’t prove beyond a doubt did anything wrong and people who exercise their TRUE inalienable rights in this country. Not being able to recognize what actually makes a player a Hall of Fame player, when this process should clearly require it of you. And what imbecile continues to allow these clowns to hold sway over the “so-called”, greatest honor in baseball? No wonder so many players have come to not care about being inducted anymore. Why would you when the Hall has allowed itself to be desecrated by it’s own induction procedure? Hopefully someone will one day open a REAL baseball museum, devoid of media clowns’ influence and based solely on baseball accomplishments. After all, it’s all that really matters in the end. In 40 years will anyone care about cream, clear and needles anymore than they do about amphetamines and horse testosterone? Highly unlikely. I’d pay to go to that museum if it ever happened. I’ll certainly never pay to see the ruins that was once Cooperstown again.

      • The BBWAA is a joke They dont even fill out the whole ballot let the fans vote

    • MLB just keeps shooting itself in the foot. Going to war with players in media over 2020 shortened season, player lockout that’s gonna shorten this season, no Hof class 2 consecutive seasons

    • I’m creating a new video game called “Hall of Fame Mutiny”. To win the game you must play your way through an inspiring career and out up great numbers on par with some of the best who’ve ever played. Then the key is to get pinned with stupid accusations that can’t be proven or go crazy on social media until you can completely escape induction to the Hall. Sounds awesome doesn’t it??!!! Now, I just need a loan for around $75,000,000 and this thing is a-go! Anyone….?

        • Schilling pulled an Eric Cartman last year. He positioned himself to be able to make the claim, “I didn’t get in because I asked not to be let in,” whether it’s true or not.

      • As is his right. If having a political opinion is ground for not getting in then there needs to be no hall of fame

      • Schilling was a very good pitcher but not HOF caliber. Add to it he’s a horrible human being and he should not get in. If you’re TOO good like Cobb, you still get in, so why don’t they let Pete Rose in ? I know he signed away his chance, but they could void it….

  2. I don’ t think Schilling will be elected this year by the writers This is his last year on the ballot and I believe he will fall short by a few votes, maybe less than ten. The writers’ views have hardened by his comments of the last few years. They are treating him like Bonds and Clemens even though he has never been implicated with steroids. Even writers who were on his side of the debate for a long time, like Joe Posnanski, have deserted him. It is so sad that someone who I believe really wants the recognition for his baseball achievements can’t keep his mouth shut (through Twitter) for a decent interval of time.

    • It is a shame that voters are making this about Schilling’s politics. His politics should not come into play.

      • Baseball writers more focused on political correctness than the sport. Sad. There are already plenty of jerks in the HOF and people who used and abused substances during their career, often because they felt it enhanced their physical performance. Tired of the Baseball Writer snobs already!

        • Schilling was not a shoe-in. His HOF merits were always borderline and debatable. That he would jeopardize his own tenuous candidacy by making outrageous statements speaks to his intelligence and self destruction.

          • 3000 Ks and consistently historic post season performance are not debatable. They really happened in real life. All the modern nonsensical statistics mean nothing if you saw the real thing. As they say, the proof is in the pudding and he proved it over and over. Especially when it mattered most.

          • 216-146 for his career, 3116 strikeouts, lifetime 3.46 ERA, 6X all star, 3X world champion, World Series and NLCS MVP, 2X MLB wins leader, 2X NL strikeout leader, Roberto Clemente award winner, post season record of 11-2 with an .846 winning percentage which is an MLB record among pitchers with at least 10 decisions. Yeah I think he’s earned a spot in the HOF, politics and personal views aside.

          • How debatable were 216 wins, 3000 Ks, 3 titles and the all time record for post season winning pctg. before the “crap-stat” era replaced the steroid era? Now guys put up a less than.500 winning octg and they are Cy Young candidates. How charming that the new generation of stat keeping is complete with it’s own set if ever-fluctuating rules, vote points and standards. What a load of shit. This is what happens when everyone started getting a trophy. Wins are very much a pitching stat if you know what you’re talking about. That occasional instance where a guy pitches so amazing game after game, wins 8 and loses 14 is pretty rare. Certainly not frequent enough to absolve pitchers from the responsibility of losing.

          • Get Real – Am I the only one who thinks Nolan Ryan should not be in the HOF ? 600 decisions, only a .526 winning %. A ton of K’s, but so what? A ton of walks. A 1.25 Whip over 5,000+ innings !! If he weren’t wild like Koufax (after Koufax got straightened out), players would have dug in on him and he would not have lasted.

          • Hank, I can see those points. Keep in mind though, he had some pretty amazing years and some crappier ones that kind of balanced down that winning pct. Some unbelievable strikeout years in his time, and 5000 lifetime is a pretty insane amount. He had some wild times but he also had some pretty dominant times as well. Cy Young awards are always debatable. Like how so many people think wins mean nothing buw. I disagree but I also think in a case like Ryan’s, he pitched for some pretty crappy teams. It’s not like this guy had a .500 record fur the ’27 Yankees or the 90’s Braves. So a lot of those losses were due to having not much offensive support. Besides the unmatchable lifetime Ks, 7 no-hitters is a tough thing to argue with. Add in the 1 and 2 hitters and this guy had quite a few pretty devastating performances. I can see your argument but I’d have a really tough time leaving a piece of history like Nolan Ryan out of the Hall of Fame.

          • That would be 12 1-hitters and 18 2-hitters on top of the 7 no hitters to be precise.

        • Baseball writers are only focused on impressing the shit out of themselves and patting each other on the ass for doing a simple job so badly. How difficult is it to talk about baseball, know what you’re talking about and relay it truthfully to the fans??? Apparently harder than it appears. Even though half of us are doing it on these very threads, the clowns getting paid would prefer to wield imaginary power while discussing unimportant, made up “statistics” that no real fan gives any merit to anyway! Great job forging ultimately forgettable “careers”, sounding just like each other and regurgitating each other’s nonsensical bullshit day in and day out.

      • The real shame is the invention of social media. It makes it impossible for people with a mind and the courage to speak it, to achieve their just reward for a job well done anymore. I’m just a guy trying to save my country from itself.

        • I agree, these squirmy writers need to keep their ego’s off their ballots, vote on the numbers and accomplishments, such as 2004 “ Warrior Season”

  3. I do think Schilling gets in but it’s really sad that his 1st Amendment rights are being abridged in his pursuit of baseball immortality.

    • abridged by who ? Congress ? The government ?

      “CONGRESS shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.”

    • That is not how the the 1st amendment works. I can’t believe so many people don’t get this. All the first amendment does just say that the government can’t restrict your right to free speech. Any number of private institutions/individuals/workplaces/etc. are completely able restrict who says what.

    • You never took a government or civics class, did you? That is not how the 1st Amendment works, snowflake. Go cry some low i.q. chant that you lead-lickers come up with, and leave the adult talk to those of us who where smart enough to pass the 1st grade on the try.

      • Dr Noel Etall

        “where smart enough”
        “pass the 1st grade on the try”

        You definitely sound like a genius.
        Or someone who has anger issues and low self esteem.

      • Call me if you would like to discuss these and many other topics after the break

    • No one in their right mind should give a damn about any amendments when this is a baseball hall of fame. Not Gettysburg address HOF, not political science HOF, BASEBALL. All this bullshit about politics, beliefs and not being friendly to the press is out of hand. If racists, drug addicts and alcoholics are in the hall, please spare me the holy roller routine over the modern day, nonexistent version of ethics. Schilling is a Hall of Famer without question. If he’s not going in, just add him to the list of reasons the so-called Hall will never see another dollar from me and several other people I know. Not going to pay good money to see the Hall of “Kissed Enough Ass and No One Ever Came Up With Anything Against Me In Time To Keep Me Out”

      • Wait, we will miss out on SEVERAL people?
        We need put a stop to this immediately! Whatever you want, how about a free hotdog and a signed picture of Rickey Henderson?

        • SEVERAL probably equates to a lot more than you think. Glad you think it’s funny, but most businesses survive on money so if you continue to piss off fans and not make any, you can have the hot dog. And you might as well hang on to the autographed picture of Henderson because you’ll need to auction it off to make all the money you’re laughing away.

    • Strange, I keep reading the Constitution and the Bill of Rights and I can’t find the part that says you will be canceled or not recognized for how well you played a game if you speak your mind freely. I’ll keep looking. Maybe somebody in the BBWAA can tell me where it is….?

  4. Don’t vote for me, I don’t care.

    All good Internet people, please be kind.

    • I loved your bloody socks game!
      Thank you so much for taking the game so serius!!!

      • No one cares what you think, unless you have 30 million dollars for me “borrow” to start a business with, which I will lose, since I have no business sense. BTW I will not pay you back. Deal?

          • NEVER! Plus, your son needs to know the truth; that was ketchup on my sock. You see, I am a rather large man (60 inch belly), and I was hiding a hot dog in my cleat. I made up the bloody sock thing – just like the libs made up the VaChina virus. USA! USA! USA!

  5. I may have tested positive for steroids, but I hired the same detective that OJ used to find the real killer. Once he cracks that case, he will explain to the world how the steroids injected into my body caused that false positive.

    • Yo investigue todo eso y se que todo una confusion, espero que te reconoscan en tu primera oportunidad, soy Dominicano y Boston fan toda mi vida, mil gracias paisa por todo lo que hiciste por Boston y lo que haces por los niños de nuestro pais!

      Dios te bendiga!!!

    • Where is the evidence of this test? Manfred said it was very likely wrong. Fine, don’t believe him. But how do you explain NEVER failing another one again??? Or I guess you can just ignore that since it doesn’t fit the argument against the guy. That’s the new way now, make shit up, back it up with nothing and then deride the hell out of anyone with a brain or sense of logic that disproves said nonsensical bullshit.

      • I admitted the positive test yesterday n interviews you idiot. Then I said to everyone with a straight face that I’d get to the bottom of how I tested positive. Like you know I figured out how to never test positive again. If you think that was because I changed my chemicals then let me send you an autograph my super-fan! As real as my hairline, I’m still not going gray haired yet either because I’m all natural.

        • Dave, you only admitted to failing, not using. MLB told us many of those “anonymous” tests were likely not reliable. Idiot

  6. By woke idiots who prioritize his political views and statements over his baseball accomplishments and stats.

      • I’m not saying that they don’t have the legal right to preclude Schilling, I’m suggesting that it’s an increasingly bad look for the HOF when more and more deserving players (those who are integral to the history of the game are excluded). I find the Schilling case to be especially galling.

    • Johnny, look, I know you are trying to support me, but stop. You did not make a complete sentence with your statement, and that just reinforces those woke libs about how dumb we really are. Just because we don’t have no fancy college degree, and most of us like to believe in our superiority, does not mean we is a dumber. I mean look at me, I bilked the state of Rhode Island out of millions and millions of dollars! Who is a dumber stupid now, libs?

      • Yo yo jackass, he misplaced a parentheses. His thoughts were easier to read than you gibberish.

          • Hey Donald, you sound like one of them thar libs that got the jab! I bet you also compost, and call your mom, don’t you? This HOF vote is rigged! I just talked with the my pillow guy, and we agree, people are going to jail for this rigged HOF election!

  7. There should never be a blank ballot.
    If you don’t vote for a player because of PED use, say so. but do not leave a blank ballot to punish all the players because of that.
    If I was a voter, I’d vote for Bonds, A-Rod, Clemens, Kent, Helton, Ortiz, Wagner, Schilling, Pettitte and Rolen.

    • I agree there should never be a blank ballot. PED or no PED. If I was a voter I’d vote for Bonds, Clemens, Schilling, A-Rod, Ortiz, Helton, Wagner, Helton, Kent, A. Jones. I am a Big Hall guy. If a guy has the numbers he belongs in. There are not enough 3rd basemen in. There are not enough catchers in. Dave Parker, Dwight Evans, Craig Nettles, Thurman Munson, Willie Randolph, Lou Whitaker all deserve to be in. So does “Bad” Bill Dahlen a shortstop form the turn of the century.

    • You, fine sir, seem to be one of those people whom believe I did not cheat, or that it is okay to reward cheaters. Do not forget, I took some slugs to the back, because I did not only cheat in baseball.

  8. There’s currently an error – no way Catfish’s brother Superplural-of-Torus is at 50%

  9. Buenos dias un placer saludarles estoy muy de acuerdo con todos los comentarios pero hay que ser agradecidos a las oportunidades que da ser incluidos por mérito en la papeletas de hall de la fama mlb ,y entendiendo mas que todo que muchos cronistas se estan dejando llevar por problemas con anabolizantes o problemas de divorcios o problemas domesticos y entendiendo mas que todo caso de shilling el año pasado de verdad tiene la razón de estar molesto ,lo mismo seria el caso de vizquel que por caso de violencia domestica o divorcio con la esposa y una supuesta violacion de un recoge bates le pasaron factura los cronistas con los votos a cooperstown saludos oswaldo zambrano

  10. thanks to open today a voted i hope that this year can be enter one o two of the problem becoems in the elected last year and are in the last years of voted and next yerar canno becoes of the same dialog of problem next year

  11. Rick what your mention is the same like ,vizquel and bobby abreu ,the case of vizquel is look like that the problem of divorcie ,and domicts problem and a supose violetion of a bat boy in usa ,but he have more than 2000 hits and 11 golden gloves in mlb also the case of bobby 44 homer in a derby of home runs and more than 400 doubles ,i hope thats the person that are voting can changes the minds and can vote more for merrit and not for comments

    • Hola Oswaldo, misma historia del año pasado, Ni Vizquel ni Abreu, tienen números para el Salón de la Fama, no insistas en nombrar guantes de oro (no pertenecen a las estadísticas de MLB) y los 44 Hr de Abreu en in Derby, menos aún. Esas estadísticas no valen para el béisbol. No quiero decir que no hayan sido buenos jugadores, lo qie digo, es que no fueron extraordinarios, y en el HOF solo entran los extraordinarios.

  12. Is Ryan Howard not being on the tracker an oversight, or is there a reason for leaving him off? I totally understand forgetting about him, I didn’t realize he made the ballot until I saw Jack McCafferey actually voted for him

    • How could the writers forget me??! I had those four awesome power years in a row and then steadily became Dave Kingman Jr!!

  13. Luis lo mismo te digo que el año si todo fuera lo que tu dices por las personas que escogen para que voten por ellos mejor que pongan en oa lista de escogencia solo los que tienen mérito no escoger puro rellenó y calculo que la lista fuera no de 19 o 20 si no de 3 o 4 por año ,pero bueno pero mientras piensen asi de verdad van a pasar años de espera y muy pocos entraran este año los que tienen mas merito son alex rodriguez y David ortiz los demas son rellenos segun lo que te entendí hubieran escogido 2 de una vez y paralizar la votación

    • A-Rod prácticamente fue expulsado del béisbol por consumo de sustancias ilícitas. Ortíz fue designado el 80% de sus juegos. Por un lado alabas a Vizquel por sus guantes de oro, y por el otro Ortíz solo fue bateo. Este comité de escritores de Béisbol, jamás dara entrada ni a Vizquel ni a Abreu. Ninguno de los dos tiene características de HOF. En Venezuela solo han habido 2 peloteros excepcionales, Aparicio y Cabrera. Ya uno está en HOF y el otro sigue activo.

  14. It’s the Hall of Fame not the Hall of Good. Abreu is an easy pass. Vizquel was borderline then ended up being a scumbag so he isn’t ever getting in.

    • Why is Abreu such an easy pass? Because he hit a lot of 2B instead of HR? He did all of the things well to be a great baseball player, but didn’t particularly stand out in any splashy way so he was often overlooked. But look more closely and you’ll see a guy who was an excellent hitter, ran the bases well, did NOT hit into a lot of DP, and in his prime was an excellent OF. Put all that together and you have a guy who averaged 6 WAR per season for 7 straight years at his peak. Add some prime after that and his average is 5 WAR across 12 seasons, and he was still an above average starter at 35. That looks a whole lot like a HOF. No, he’s not as flashy as Vlad, he doesn’t have the hook and the narrative that Vlad has, but overall he was just as good a player albeit in a more subtle, understated fashion.

      • Like I said my G,it’s the Hall of Fame not Hall of Good. Looks like the writers agree. I think Carlos Beltran is probably a better argument here in the next few years. But like a lot of these others,the character clause could get in the way.

          • His numbers just aren’t there. Very similar stats to Luis Gonzalez and Bernie Williams. Sorry you don’t see it.

        • C’mon, the writers are hardly the standby for acceptable reference here. If Abreu is an “easy pass”, then so are Rolen, Helton and others with extremely similar numbers. If the bar is higher than Abreu type numbers, then there are way too many middling guys already in. Homers were not an amazing number for him but everything else was on par with or higher than a guy like Rolen. Kind of weird who gets to these borderline entry vote totals and who gets half those votes when the numbers are so close.

      • Yeah, and let’s not hear how Rolen’s 8 gold gloves are some magical difference maker for the tenth time on this site. It’s starting to feel like such a reach.

    • If the Hall were this, Hall Of Only Excellence, as you describe, then it is already far too crowded with “subpar” entrants. Guys who hit well under .300, didn’t have much power etc. What is great? Fisk, Rice, Dawson? If so, then Rolen, Abreu and Belton are simple choices. But then, so was Dwight Evans and easily Fred McGriff who were simply ignored. What the hell?? Hack Wilson had a handful of amazing numbers but not an elongated career of them, yet there is a plaque saying he’s one of the best ever. By the best of the best logic, there would be about 4 players per decade who belong and it wouldn’t be a very interesting place to visit. The bigger problem is the process. The writers shouldn’t be the voters. Any process where Williams, Mays, Aaron, DiMaggio and so many more didn’t get 100% of the votes, is clearly tainted. Obviously those are the hands down, no question guys and anyone who doesn’t know that DOESN’T KNOW BASEBALL. Otherwise you’re voting based on personal feelings which means you’re too stupid to know what unbiased means. Clemens was never proven to use steroids. He said, she said is not proof. Clearly a hall of famer, his 10 years of waiting is irrefutable proof of the idiocy of the writers who think any cares what they think. Binds admitted to “rubbing cream” on himself so if you don’t want to vote for him, at least there’s some semblance of reason to back you up. But even still, his career was hall-worthy prior to 73 and steroids don’t make you hit the ball.

      • Don’t forget Bob Johnson. He should get in if you let some of the others on your list in. Much better player/career then a serial compiler like Bobby Abreu.

      • Thanks for leaving me out of the argument over who belongs in the hall, since I so very clearly belong there. I had a great beard once and wore horizontal stripes quite well.

        • Sorry Harry, I thought you got in because you bought a ticket. I keep forgetting the vet’s committee tied one in that year and accidentally gave you a plaque.

        • Haha, I can’t afford anything anymore! I am thinking of selling the one and only Silver Slugger Award I won on eBay – lost my shirt in cryptocurrency. But I got in because I was a nice guy! I’d buy you lunch if I saw you! I’d win you over too!

          • Thanks Harry. I accept. But let me treat, I know you’re getting used to charity these days. Is there a 7-11 in your area? Those taquiitos have been in the warmer about as long as it took you to put up those mediocre numbers big guy.

          • Thanks for calling my stats mediocre! According to my annual totals, I had 6 “scrub” years and 4 “role player” years out of my 22, and I only reached as high as 3 WAR twice so not like I made up for down years blowing the cover off the ball either. No WS rings either. Just a long time hanging on, eating hot dogs. I love me some sausages. And trim beards, that’s my jam. Cooling out with some easy jazz, gobbling wieners and chucking milk.

            Did you see Lorenzo Cain matched my WAR in less than half the plate appearances? Why he might get in unanimously!

          • Way to sum it up Harry, and with no assumptions of PED use, you were clearly a no-brainer! I mean, really, who cares if most people didn’t even know you were still around half way through your career? That just speaks to what a nice guy you were, never getting involved in any ugly scandals or anything. What more is there, right buddy? Who needs statistics?! This has become about nothing to do with statistics! Good job Harry, and congratulations on a job well done to no one’s satisfaction but yours!

  15. well luis i respect your opinion but it is as tom grow says if the hall of fame was not only good most would enter but it is not

  16. Love checking in occasionally at the current state of ballots. I wholly believe that all of the voters should be required to publish their ballots. Everyone is still wondering who the d-bag that didn’t vote for Jeter was. Honestly the vote should go to the fans anyhow, we are the ones paying for their salaries and supporting them throughout their careers. make it one vote per IP address, top two vote getters each year get elected. Dump the beat writers holding a grudge because they didnt get their exclusive… And for petes sake lets get Pete Rose in the Hall where he belongs. use and asterisk if you must but put him in. Again Hall of Fame not Hall of Good (sorry Harold Baines)
    Bonds and Clemens need to get in they’ve spent enough time in purgatory. especially since the voters were happy enough to vote in Piazza, Bagwell, Ivan Rodriguez and others and seem hell bent on electing Ortiz this year. Enough is enough with the double standards.

    • I like your thinking Smokin Joe but keep in mind there are too many “woke” morons with IP addresses out there. They screw it up for the rest of us no matter how you slice it. They need to come up with a good old-fashioned voirdire process to determine the impartiality of a small panel of knowledgeable baseball fans. People who won’t listen to outside noise and will judge each candidate solely on the basis of their on field production. It will never happen but it’s the only way to get it right. For the few things the digitally has been helpful for, it has also given voices to far too many idiots to ever expect a sense of normalcy again.

  17. dear what i see the election are decided the 3 player that will enter are bonds, ortiz and clemens , what i dont understand is why a player that last year the cornist ovted for a porcentaje more than 42% right now is 30% lower that may be is what is mention smokin joe , the cronist have to be removed and put a new fresh cornist with not this mind the cronist are doing that my opinion

  18. Here’s the problem the so called sports writers who claim to be all virtual are a bunch of hypocrites. The pass judgment on schilling for his politics and free speech. Which have nothing to do with baseball. So who’s the real bigot and the one discriminating against someone. As for the steroid era which many were likely using. If someone can tell me which pitcher, fielder or batter was using them against any nominee, lmk. Then maybe we can fairly assess the nominees accomplishments. It’s pretty simple if any player tested positive after the testing was implemented then the voter can use there own judgment. No positive test by baseball, then no issue. Speculation of tests from the Mitchell report, big head, feet, body. Numbers increasing with age players attitude or whatever. STOP it was part of the game for 10 yrs. Sportswriters looked away, the union looked away and major league baseball looked away. Basically it saved the game after the strike. These Sportswriters keep playing there little games and the HOF will be a joke like so many other things the woke media destroys. HOF already has a pox on its house without having the all time hits leading. Now we’re not going to put the all time HR leader in and one of the top 2 or 3 pitcher who ever played. Super were do I send my HOF tickets back for a refund.

  19. I very much agree, with this last comment , of chet,I read and followed up on the voting of the sports chroniclers, most of the votes, more than all, have been punishments votes for extra-sports cases, not taking into account, what was done, by some players ,and I do not think, that the hall Fame should not punish them ,should give merits for sports not to extra sports, but as the friend says, they should really change ,the votes to the hall of fame not to sports writers but to fans to be awarded

  20. This is ware the rubber hits the road in the next few weeks, with the non sports playing voters for the most part. There is a few things they can’t get around. Which one is the speculation aspect of steroid use. Many of these voters put piazza and Rodriguez in the HOF. Which both had speculation they may of used steroids. Using bonds and clemens as the same example. The speculation is they both used steroids but there is no hard evidence they did. No positive test, no suspension. Circumstantial evidence of of people claiming of giving shots or flaxseed oil. But in the end it’s he said she said. What voters simply can’t get around is neither bonds nor clemens were ever tested positive for PED or suspended for PED, period. So in the end this will determine how ethical the voters are on the accomplishments of the players on the field regardless of alleged steroid use. Is it spite because the media hated bonds and couldn’t stand that clemens defended himself to the end, and was ultimately exonerated by congress of lying about steroids use. Boys you can’t separate the wheat from the chaff here, many players used some sort of PED’s in that era. Which we will never know who and how many. So if voters want to maintain the integrity of the process. It’s best they apply the same standard to those not in to those you already put in from that era. On a side note stop with the free speech political gamesmanship grudges. It’s beneath the process and shows your unethical mentality of if you don’t play by my woke rules, then you don’t play at all.

  21. Chet responding to your concern I agree with you what I see that both last year and this year the sports writers for the problem that exists in this case with Barry Bonds, Roger Clement , Shilling and sammy sosa,who are in their last year of choice, the extra part sports has overcome the part they did in the time that many players played baseball, many of them what they wanted with the asteroids was to try to confuse the fans of course one of the culprits was the commissioner of the time, which I think they should focus on to giving more credibility to the chroniclers is more for the player in the sports part since they are not the ones who can play with votes or take votes from players I think that they have children and wives, some do well, others do not with wives, and I think that for that this has more value should not be put into the private life of the player in case they see the sport better, not family life, many have errors but the chroniclers do not They can correct and punish only for comments, for that there are lawyers and judges to say no, the chroniclers I hope that the chroniclers in 2023 will be more onerous and see more the value of the player than anything else.

  22. Dear ryan sorry to say this but what i look and that is not fear why a person that have a divorces and extrasport do the cronist what the are doing ,if i see right now look the cronist vote this year more than 44 cronist will not vote for omar vizquel and this is not fear for some error extra sport he do , i hope in the future the president of the hall of fame dont agree what the cronist for some comments extra sport agree that the cronist are doing a not like the valous of a player in the field and the mark or years playing for some team or other ,please think in a seat in a table and think

  23. I have to say this: I was just a prop. Did you see the mess ol’ Curt made of me? You all think that was bloody from the “surgery” on his ankle, oozing out? Pfft. That was the Pace picante sauce he dropped, while chowing down on some delicious tacos in between innings. I mean, prove me wrong. Oh, you want evidence? Look at Curt’s belly in the game. Girthy. I rest my case.
    Hugs and kisses,
    The Bloody Sock.

    • HEY!!! You promised to NEVER tell anyone about this! WTF, bro, I thought we were tight?!?!?! TO THINK, I used you as my special sock!

  24. The voting is starting to shape up as very descrimatory and vindictive by these voters. Perfect example Arod is polling in the mid forty percentile his first year. Being suspended for a whole year for PED use. While bonds and clemens were never suspended and they started in the mid thirty percentile. Now a guy leading the pack in voting has been alleged to have tested positive in the Mitchell report. So what kind of game are these voters playing. These voters voting for one alleged PED using and not another need to be called out and question on their motive why the discrimination towards one player to another.

  25. I agree with Chet ,the discrimination of the chronist voters do this year, is undeniable, it is incredible that the chroniclers, are doing this, what it seems is that they are trying to reward the most polemics, and leave them this year, I already know ,by inclusion in the hall of the Fame, or I don’t know what they are thinking so, that a person is already almost 46 out of 51 who is losing compared to last year. It is true that in sport it is called bad intention, baseball being, an entertainment and both the chroniclers live on the fans, who pay I think the chroniclers, are very irresponsible, what they are doing favoring some of the detractions of others, what they are going to achieve, with this is that some players, get angry and refuse in the future to have a plate in coorpertwon ,and give more value to the plate ,they have. In the team that retired, I say it so that next year, they react and this year they only have 8 days left to vote and it is too late

  26. Johan Santana was a better pitcher than Tim Lincecum, Mark Buherle, Tim Hudson and Andy Pettitte and he didn’t even sniff the Hall of Fame. LOL, this is a joke.

    • You are correct. None of these guys are a Hall of famer. Nice enough careers but not for long enough with the possible exception of Pettite. But if you’re not going to vote Clemens, Schilling, Kent or Helton in, why wouldn’t the entire thing just be a joke?

      • Johan was even better than Pettitte. The Yankees was basically the reason why Pettitte won so many games. Take a loot at his ERA, tell that’s the ERA of a hall of fame pitcher, of course excluding Jack Morris. Roger Clemens, Barry Bonds, Curt Schilling should all be voted in the hall of fame, without them how can you tell the story of baseball?

        • Exactly right sir. If it was meant to be a church, they failed long long ago so just tell the damn story as it existed and not how some idealistic idiots think it should be. An awful lot of guys need to be removed if it’s suddenly a Hall of Ethics. Especially since so many steroids cases revolve around suspicion without iron-clad proof. You’re screwing it up further by guessing who did and didn’t do it. And at this point, who really cares anymore???

  27. I can’t believe that now a 2nd blank ballot arrived.
    Michael Hunt is the perfect name for a Bart Simpson crank call to Moe the Bartender.
    What good is being a baseball writer if you don’t vote for a single player to baseball’s Hall of Fame?

    • Any idiot who sends a blank ballot, when there are obviously hall of famers on it, should not be given a ballot ever again and their current ballot should be stricken from record. Should not be counted as a blank against anyone. Loser

  28. I’ve watched this process for my 9th year now. I must say over those 9 years the process seems to have become.more convoluted. It’s seems like a simple task. Player becomes eligible 5 years after retirement and can be placed on the ballot. Seems pretty straightforward until we get the cuckoo opinionated sportswriters involved. How is it possible a player is not voted in the first year of eligibility. But gradually increases over time and gets voted in. Some even making big jumps their finally year of eligibility to get in. Did something happen to their stats over the period of time they did not reach the 75% threshold for enshrinement. Which at this point enshrinemint is very gracious term. More likely butt kissing or toweing the establishment line rather then enshrinement. Something must happen in that period for people to change their mind. Because it’s certainly not based on field performance that’s done, a fixed entity. Do players do charity work, paint sports writers homes, clean their pools. Make donations to certain organizations, recant past positions or comments. Yes I know voters drop off and new ones come aboard and many vote yes for players running out of their 10 year eligibility. Something just don’t add up, your either in or out and not over a 10 yr period. All though morbid maybe if a player dies within his finally few playing years. Or shortly after retirement, within 1 year we could get a more fare and honest vote. Instead of this a$$ kissing convoluted voting festival for 10 yrs. Like vote #54 must be a preacher. It’s has become a WALL OF SHAME. You can blame voters for that.

  29. So now all sort of bad news and personal issues about Roger Clemens and Barry Bonds are coming out to keep them both out of the hall. Like the hall of fame was some sort of hall of saints or something like that. Come on, there are lots of players enshrined that were not saints but yeah, let’s focus on Roger Clemens and Barry Bonds instead. Roger Clemens probably one of the best pitchers all time and Barry Bonds (the home run king) whether you like it or not. These two are hall of famers even if you voters don’t put them in. In our minds they are and will always be first ballot hall of famers, period.

  30. Agree Rolen has 8 Gold Gloves, was a much better fielder than Kent. But Kent did have the MVP.

    • Oh yeah, and all the other silly little numbers I blew away Rolen with, like homers, hits, rbis, obp and so on.

    • I should get in just for having to listen to that idiot Bonds pissing and moaning about everything all those years…

      • I’ll beat your ass again, fool.

        Hey, want to hit up 40/40 club and get jiggly with it for old times sake?

        • I would have kicked your ass but I never really healed from that injury I sustained washing my car in my cut-off jean shorts. Just so hard to see around this ridiculous porn-stash bro.

  31. Vizquel now at -21. I’ve never seen such a decline. At this rate it’s quite possible he drops off the ballot this year.

  32. Sorry to all this senofobix or baseball cronisth cooperstown baseball ,if is this the mlb is only for american players or whats the cronisth sport wants is denegration only for dovercers and whats batboys says if the cooperstown changes in a years what i mention please chances otherwise the cooperstown will we desagree player enter only because like the cronist sport not for merit player
    Best regards

    • Now that Vizquel has been fired from his Managers job in Mexico,I will assume that’s the end of the line for his baseball career. Might be time to go back to Venezuela where according to some of the comments I’ve read here,his type of behavior is acceptable. Good luck Omar!

  33. important notices i hope that with this resolved problem the sport cronist in the vote to vizque l can chances the mind
    Omar Vizquel compartió el final del proceso legal ante Blanca Garcia

    Lunes 27| 7:30 pm


    Redacción Meridiano

    El venezolano Omar Vizquel, publicó mediante sus redes sociales, el final del proceso legal entre Blanca García (ex-esposa) y del ex-grandeliga criollo. El caraqueño destacó que “La justicia muestra una vez más que la verdad siempre prevalece”


    As promised, I share with everyone the conclusion of my legal process that occurred between my now ex-wife, Blanca Garcia and I; in which, justice always prevails!

    .#mlb #baseball #espn #mlbdominicana #mlbvenezuela #mlbnews #espnnews #telemundo #sports #meridianoonline pic.twitter.com/2UZ8SNf0q7
    — Omar Vizquel (@VizquelOmar13) December 27, 2021

  34. tom responding to your comment about the dismissal of omar vizquel in mexico remember that the dismissals of managers are always the weakest in baseball the manager can be good or have intentions but if the players fail, always the responsibility is the managers never delos players that was what happened with omar vizquel they are also experiences but see tommy lasorda, matengly among others some are still directing in mlb and were fired from other teams all is luck

  35. In a vote of the veteran players currently in the Hall of Fame, I doubt even Willie Mays would vote for his God son, and I know WAY less than 75% of them would. Plus, Please leave next summer’s induction ceremony to true men of class: Tony Oliva and Jim Kaat

    • Oswaldo, defender las actuaciones extradeportivas de Vizquel es (desde mi punto de vista) algo vergonzoso, Si ya de por si no tenía suficientes números para estar en HOF, ahora aparte de no tener números, no tiene honor. Por última vez te voy a tocar el tema de las estadísticas de Vizquel comparado con Rollins, para demostrarte que no tiene méritos para llegar al HOF.
      Campañas con 180+ hits (Rollins 5, Vizquel 1)
      Campañas con 30+ Dobles (Rollins 10, Vizquel 4)
      Campañas con 10+ triples (Rollins 5, Vizquel 1)
      Campañas con 15+ Hr (Rollins 6, Vizquel 0)
      Campañas con 30+ Robadas (Rollins 10, Vizquel 4)
      Campañas con 90+ Anotadas (Rollins 7, Vizquel 3)
      Promedio defensivo (Vizquel .985 / Rollins .983)
      WAR (Rollins 47.6/ Vizquel 45.6)
      Como ves, Rollins lo supera en todos los departamentos ofensivos, y en la parte defensiva, la diferencia es de dos milésimas.
      Rollins ganó un MVP, Vizquel nunca ganó uno.

      Hasta ahora Rollins tiene menos votos que Vizquel, y no veo a los “fanáticos” hacer de ello un escandalo.

      Cómo te digo, es la última vez que te menciono el tema, deja el nacionalismo a un lado, Vizquel no merece estar en HOF.

  36. 2 writer voted for no one. none of this list worth of the hall of fame. there should be a hall of shame for undeserving baseball writers and these should be on there and they should lose their voting rights in the future and their ballots omitted this year.

  37. to rest of the cronist sport vote and atletic page
    This was the story between Omar Vizquel and Blanca García with a happy ending for the former shortstop,
    The truth comes to light and as they say in my land, above there is a God who sees below, justice has been done in the case of Omar Vizquel and his ex-wife Blanca Vizquel.

    The former Venezuelan shortstop was accused in mid-December 2020 of domestic abuse by his wife, Blanca, who alleged multiple cases of physical violence by the former star player according to a work published on Wednesday by The Athletic portal. A fact that occurred just when Omar was well on his way to the Major League Baseball Hall of Fame in 2021.

    Blanca Vizquel gave The Athletic an interview in which she revealed that her husband physically abused her in 2011, before marrying in 2014, and in 2016. She also described a heated argument with her husband last August, when she decided to leave him and start the divorce process. Omar Vizquel, through a lawyer, denied to The Athletic, any type of accusation that had to do with domestic violence.

    “I have nothing to say. This is a divorce and I know she is really mad. There are a lot of things (being said) about things that supposedly happen behind closed doors, you know. I have nothing to say about it either. It’s just a divorce, “the Venezuelan told The Athletic, when asked about his wife’s accusations of violence.,Omar Vizquel “, a legend baseball player from Venezuela, is a trend because his wife, Blanca Vizquel, accused him of domestic violence on an Instagram live. In addition, he also admitted that he is processing the divorcepic.twitter.com/Un9uKTrSJ6
    How it began

    Blanca Vizquel’s first public accusation of domestic abuse occurred on October 7 in a live Instagram video. Omar denied hitting Blanca at the time, saying his wife decided to leave him and that the couple was in the process of divorce.

    Omar Vizquel was taken into police custody in 2016 after an incident at the couple’s Seattle-area home in Sammamish, Washington, according to The Athletic. Blanca Vizquel told police that her husband pushed her during an argument, causing her to fall and suffer a shin injury and multiple broken nails.

    Blanca Vizquel, called a neighbor, who notified the King County Sheriff’s Office. Omar Vizquel was booked for fourth degree domestic assault and taken to jail, but Blanca Vizquel later asked the Sammamish prosecutor to drop the charges against her husband, according to The Athletic.
    Omar Vizquel responded to the accusations of his wife Blanca, about alleged domestic violence: “I will not be part of a discussion on social networks that does not contribute to a positive solution or honor the memories of our times together # 6Oct pic.twitter. com / wCZhvaKci5,
    In a letter to the prosecutor, Bianca Vizquel denied the official police record of the alleged incident and said she wanted to resolve her marital problems with her husband. However, she told The Athletic that Omar Vizquel forced her to sign the letter and threatened her with financial retribution.,
    Omar and Blanca Vizquel signed affidavits acknowledging that “we lost control of ourselves, which resulted in physical contact between us.” Both said individually that they did not want the incident to lead to criminal charges, according to The Athletic.

    The couple eventually filed a joint motion to dismiss any charges stemming from the incident, according to The Athletic, and the motion was granted.

    Blanca Vizquel told The Athletic that the August 2020 incident was a heated discussion but did not indicate that Omar physically abused her. She said that she “made the decision to leave the house and not come back. I didn’t want to feel that feeling where you didn’t know if you would be safe.”

    All this tramoya immediately impacted Omar Vizquel in his vote for Cooperstown in 2021. The Venezuelan who was on his way to continue increasing his percentage of votes, witnessed how many voters, withdrew the vote, or abstained from giving him the vote until he The facts in which he had been involved are clarified, while his wife announced that she had an OnlyFans account for her followers. Two different sides of a single coin.

    Strong Criticizes Blanca Vizquel on her account in ONLY FANS https://t.co/8kK6lDWaZ0 pic.twitter.com/7WYiVcAA6h,The 53-year-old Vizquel is also being investigated by Major League Baseball, which interviewed Blanca and is also investigating a 2019 clubhouse incident when Omar was the manager of the Chicago White Sox’s Double-A affiliate, Los Birmingham Barons.
    A new light

    Last Monday, December 27 in the afternoon, Omar Vizquel took advantage of his social networks to publish a statement about the outcome of this entire legal matter with his ex-wife, Blanca García.

    In the text, the former star of the Cleveland Indians details that last Wednesday, December 22, the divorce process ended in court and that the accusations of domestic violence were dismissed.

    As promised, I share with everyone the conclusion of my legal process that occurred between my now ex-wife, Blanca Garcia and I; in which, justice always prevails!

    . # mlb #baseball #espn #mlbdominicana #mlbvenezuela #mlbnews #espnnews #telemundo #sports #meridianoonline pic.twitter.com/2UZ8SNf0q7
    Vizquel’s reputation has been filled with ink and this may have been a possible stumbling block on the road to induction into the Cooperstown Hall of Fame, in whose voting he had been rising in percentage due to his quality on the pitch and his skills that place him among the best shortstop in the history of the discipline.

    However, for a player to be considered a baseball immortal he must have a dignified image outside the parks, so having clarified this report of sexual harassment may be a new light for him on the ballot.

    Hopefully not and just as @TheAthletic gave his ex-wife a platform, now I review the resolution of the divorce process, which at least in this particular, cleanses the image of Omar Vizquel.

    In less than two years the name of Omar Vizquel has been pointed out in a negative way, so it will be interesting to see how this new turn in history impacts the votes he receives from the baseball chroniclers in the next ballots of the Hall of the Fame.

    • But don’t forget, I wasn’t a very good hitter. That should count for something!

  38. Do not accept late ballots. I have a feeling that last year something fishy happened. Curt Schilling was doing pretty good on the vote totals and the year before as well. Everything changed after Curt Schilling said something on January 6th when the votes were already sent. Voters, again this is not a political issue, this is a museum, it’s the hall of fame.

  39. If reporters had their competition who took illegal drug and as a result could type faster and or produce more articles, I do not think those guys would be celebrated by the media. It’s the same thing. These steroid guys cheated & then lied. They destroyed the record books. Keep them all out and not just the ones that didn’t smile all the time. What a joke that you guys can’t see this. Do not turn your backs and just let them in the HOF.

    • Then you need to go remove all the other guys who took steroids, amphetamines or anything else that “assisted” them in recovery or performance. Idiotic to get on a high horse now but not penalize everyone who ever did it just because they beat the click and got in. Start with Pud Galvin and his buddies and work your way right through. Goodbye Mayes, Mantle, Aaron, Gossage etc. Have fun looking at plaques for Rabbit Maranville and Harold Baines when you buy your tickets for the half empty Hall if Nothing. It’s a game. People screwed up. None of these guys were the first. If your boss says no one can do such and such anymore because it’s unfair and your asshole coworker keeps doing it without getting caught, and because of this, you don’t look like as good an employee as him and it costs you money or maybe your job, what do you do? Tell on him like a little rat? Just let him take your money and your job? That’s what went on here forever and finally MLB stepped in because Congress forced the issue. Let’s not pretend these guys were burning churches or killing opponents in their sleep. Move on.

  40. People, voters and analysts are advocating for Andruw Jones to get inducted, but Jim Edmonds was probably better than him and couldn’t stay in the ballot for two years and the same goes for Kenny Lofton, he’s WAR was highest than the one of Andruw and Edmonds. I can understand their points but, there were probably outfielders who remained on the outside looking in.


    • Banned or not the players knew they were doing something wrong… that’s why it was done behind closed doors, in bathroom stalls, purchased thru third parties and bought with cash in brown paper bags. If it wasn’t such a big deal why all the secrets and lies?

      • No one seeks legitimate medical treatment in the same way as receiving narcotics. These were not measure to preserve privacy, these were to evade detection and set up fall guys.

      • All I want to know is, when Canseco said he and McGwire we’re giving it to each other in the ass in the bathroom stalls, what the hell does that mean…?

  42. Based on what I see in the full Thibodaux Tracker it looks like almost every vote counted so far about 27% of the total has voted exactly how they voted in 2020 and that would lead me to believe even though we are sitting at about 80% for Clemens and Bonds, they will still likely end up in the 60% +/- a few points in the end barring a big change of position from the remaining writers.

    • Yes I agree which will be a embarrassment and a public relations blackeye for MLB and the HOF, especially if Ortiz is voted in and bonds and clemens are not. This will forever change the perception of the voting process and who’s in and who’s out. Some players likely used PED have been voted in and some not voted in. Not to mention the woketard political bend for some players. Like I said becoming the hall of shame, you can blame that on the sportswriters. As so often the media destroys everything it touches. That’s pretty evident over the last 10 yrs. Look at their ratings.

      • Yeah, its all so hypocritical too. I recently read Mickey Mantle had testosterone injected to speed healing of an injury when he was in the home run chase with Roger Maris. I guess he should be removed? Besides he was a raging alcoholic like the Babe which no doubt played a part in his performance…clearly beneficial no matter what you think of alcoholics. Also, its never actually been proven than most of these eligible players used steroids to improve baseball performance. The testing for steroids is suspect itself and many of these players come from and frequently visited foreign countries where steroids were, and continue to be, LEGAL! Finally, the best evidence against most of these guys is random testing done in 2003 when steroids were not even banned at the time! I don’t know, maybe I am missing something but seems like this Hall of Fame is being run by goody, goodies and babies.

  43. Buenos dias feliz año nuevo a todos muy tristes por lo que hicieron con omar vizquel en esta votación de verdad que pareciera que los cronistas deportivos votaron no con el corazón si no querían votar muchos de los que votaron en el 2021 por el de verdad que pareciera que el hall de la fama cambio de nombre , se llama el hall de la fama de las injusticias batir el récord ya de votos negativos de – 30 que tristeza ver el nombre no de vizquel si no de venezuela sumando los votos negativos de este año y los del año 2021 lleva -51 o mas ,todo por comentarios extra deportivos ojalá en la votación del 2023 sean los cronistas deportivos mas consientes y no dejarse llevar por comentarios extra deportivos como violencia domestica, divorcios o supuestas violaciones ,les sugiero de corazón una persona que sigue año.a año los juegos de la mlb ,los 162 juegos
    Oswaldo zambrano

  44. Perdonen lo que quise decir de violas es decir seducción sexual a recoge bates
    Saludos oswaldo zambrano

  45. Omar visquel not getting the votes is a joke..
    Guy was an amazing SS, played until he was 45. Voters need to open their eyes to actual game footage and stop looking at numbers .

    • Yeah, and Julio Franco too. He played til he was 75 and put just as shitty numbers as Vizquel for someone who had multiple decades plus to actually build up meaningful stats. They should go in together since they don’t even touch my unimpressive 40-year output!

  46. The voters who did not even vote should definitely thrown off. There must be the clown who didn’t vote for Jeter. Also Visquel, good field no hit. Same for many the the shortstops elected previously. At least 8 of them come to mind. Scooter, Pee Wee.

    • Jeter was a true HOF’er but not the greatest of all time to earn 100%.

      • Percentage is crap. You’re either a Hall of Famer or you’re not. You don’t get better being retired. It’s so tiresome listening to people say “he’s working his way up”. How the hell is he doing that??? Sitting on his ass in his living room?? His stats don’t change between retirement, 5 years later. 10 years later or 15 years later. He’s the same guy. The conversation doesn’t even make sense.

        • None of this shit makes sense. Guys who didn’t play professional baseball anywhere near the level the guys on the ballot did get to decide who was the best? Based on what? That they like to talk about sports and are lucky enough to get paid for something many if us do better than they can? How do the Hall of Fame and MLB not see something wrong with this picture? One thing if they’d proven themselves to be reliable judges of merit but, clearly, that’s not the case and hasn’t been for WAY too long.

  47. Voters sending blank ballots just can’t accept that there was a Barry Bonds (homerun king) who broke the all time record mark. They are a joke! He is the all time home run leader whether you like it or not. Sorry guys. Roger Clemens one of the best pitchers of MLB history, but they just can’t accept it. LOL

  48. Looking at the Omar Visquel vote collapse, and I have a theory/narrative I’m concerned about.
    We all know the maths, 2020 vote – he was at 52.7%, now he’s currently tracking at 8.9% two voting cycles later. He lost 32 votes in 2021 and has already lost another 33 in 2022 as at the time of this post.
    What’s worth noting is that in 2021, 5 of the 32 votes lost were from a 10-vote ballot. Of the 33 lost in 2022, 21 were from a 10-vote ballot !
    Part of the story WILL be (perceptibly) his off-field endeavors (whether we like it or not), but many are dropping him because of a full dance card, with A-Rod and Ortiz being added and potentially some writers deciding to allocate new votes elsewhere. In a way, he’s possibly a bunch of writers’ 11th or 12th picks.
    My theory is we have the narrative story right now… Visquel has gone from 52% two years ago to somewhere that might have him scraping for eligibility in 2023… but then you remove 4 10-year eligibles, and a whole bunch of voters’ spots are freed up, they come back to Omar, and the resurrection arc that didn’t need to be written about begins.
    Is it impossible that Visquel’s vote collapse in 2021 and 2022 turns completely around, the writers who dumped him publicly pick him back up publicly and we’re staring at these trackers in 2026/2027 and thinking ‘Wow, Omar might sneak in, or at least get very VERY close’ to the magical mark ?’.
    If he can rebound back to a 45-50% mark by his 7th round in 2024, it’ll be a very interesting situation.

    • The part all of these arguments seem to forget about Omar Vizquel is that he kind of sucked. The guy played a pretty long time and the only meaningful number he racked up we’re hits. Obviously his power didn’t exist but that guy played that long, he should have at least racked up five or 600 doubles if he was a good hitter. If he had a number like that, maybe a 280 batting average and the amount of hits he ended up with, it would look much better for his case. Yeah he got a lot of singles but it took him about 53 years to do it. And not much else.

  49. answering your comments i hope tha t solving the problem coming last year and this year about omar vizquel thanks for the sport chronist voted this year what we says usa have the records for homer runs , doubles , triples , singles , rbi, war , save , stolen bases , strikeout etc, right now venezuela have the record in losing votes in the cooperstown
    i hope that next year the chronist will do the same to order player in the ballets voted 2023 or more tha t other player can look what can doing the chronist to omar vizquel , if not do
    that we call xenofobit

    • Not sure what words you are trying to string together, but Luis Aparicio was voted in back in 1984. I bet the voters have no clue what country Vizquel nor any other players are from. Why should they?

  50. Four blank ballots? four wastes of time, space and effort. they can be the difference between staying on the ballot, getting elected and getting nothing.

  51. Any voter leaving the ballot blank should have their voting privileges removed. The writers considered themselves judge, jury, and executionists. Looking at this years ballot if the 4 lame writers don’t want to vote for the big guys then go with Mark Teixeira. Teixeira has always been considered clean and is a fringe candidate to gather 5%.

    • I feel the same way, there are plenty of great candidates that deserve serious consideration. Those who sent blank ballots should consider not voting anymore, it is a privilege to be part of this process not to play the role of God on it.

  52. Not sure what words you are trying to string together, but Luis Aparicio was voted in back in 1984. I bet the voters have no clue what country Vizquel nor any other players are from. Why should they?
    True fan of the game
    answering this question , I explain what happens is that in 1984 when they elected Luis Aparicio, the problems that these sportswriters have caused, getting into the private lives of the players, did not exist, and they were a little more honest, if what hurt me a lot was David concepcion, what a good ss it was, they were champions for several years with the red machinery of the cincinati reds and they never elected him hopefully and the veteran council elects him in this 2023 to the mlb hall of fame,
    With respect to omar vizquel, what the sports writers are doing, since last year is hurting him, and as once it has dropped from almost 45%, from approval to almost 9.1%, that is, it is like the story sometimes, I serve you other times, not only to favor david ortiz, barry bonds, and roger clements that in life is not called credibility, but opportunism, which really saddens me that they are sports writers, always in sports, it must be credible, not sometimes yes, sometimes not, being the president of the hall of fame, I would revoke the authorization to vote for the election, of one player or several, in the future of the hall of fame, as I say The last word is held by the baseball commissioner, or the president of the hall of fame, for the 2023 election, since by 2022 it is too late.

  53. There’s no way Scott Rolen should get in before me, Jim Ray Hart. Sure he has the edge in Gold Gloves, 8-0, and was a much better hitter. But I was a great clubhouse guy, and I made all my teammates better.

    Mays was pathetic before I came along and made him great. McCovey too. Juan Marichal couldn’t throw a strike until I took him aside and gave him the Jim Ray coaching. I introduced Gaylord Perry to vaseline but not in the way you’re thinking.

    – Jim Ray Hart

    • Hey teammate, miss you bud. Wish you’d return my calls. You’re simply the best, better than all the rest.

  54. Fewest all star appearances on the ballot:
    2 Abreu and Pierzynski
    3 Vizquel, Pettitte and guys not getting votes

    I’m not suggesting it’s a metric to make or break a HOF contender, but these are pretty low numbers when considering who was the best all-time. If people rarely thought of these players as best in league while they were active, why are they even considered for the all time greats?

  55. If Bonds and Clemens get in, Rose should be let in. Best hitter in ball history, should be a no brainer. Don’t give him any legacy as a coach, I’m good with that, but straight up player stats, he should be in the hall.

    • What Bonds and Clemens did, juicing on steroids, was not against any rules in Major League Baseball at that time. What Rose did, betting on games, betting even on his own games, was a “hanging offense”.

      Besides, nobody who understands baseball considers Pete Rose “the best hitter in ball history”, not even his mother. At his best he was pretty good, never the best player on any of his 24 teams. His single MVP year he was the 2nd or 3th best player on the ’75 Reds.

      Pete is the career leader in three things: singles, at-bats and plate appearances. Look at the top ten in each of thos categories and you’ll find that Pete is the worst player. He was mediocre in the field, pretty poor on the bases, and a cancer in the clubhouse. But he could hit a little bit.

      • I agree, betting on ball was against the rules. Steroids was not against the rule (until around 2004-2005). I don’t like the argument because in the spirit of the game betting on ball does not (necessarily) affect the outcome of a game, steroids do. To me, steroids are worse for the game.

        Take it a step further, stealing signs is not against the rules so why were so many upset with Houston this past year, they didn’t do anything illegal.

        I outright disagree with your view of Rose (besides his attitude because it was crap). By the numbers, Rose can be compared to Robin Yount and Ozzie Smith who are both in the Hall. I can also draw comparisons to Ichiro Suzuki who will, no doubt, make the Hall.

        Like him or hate him, he deserves to be voted in as a player.

      • Rose – WAR 79.6, H 4256, HR 160 BA .303 R 2165, RBI 1314, OBP .375, SLG .409, OPS .784, 17 all star games, 2 Gold Gloves, 1 Silver Slugger

        Yount – WAR 77.3, H 3142, HR 251 BA .285 R 1632, RBI 1406, OBP .342, SLG .430, OPS .772, 3 all star games, 1 Gold Gloves, 3 Silver Slugger

        Smith – WAR 76.9, H 2460, HR 28 BA .262 R 1257, RBI 793, OBP .337, SLG .328, OPS .666, 15 all star games, 13 Gold Gloves, 1 Silver Slugger

        Suzuki – WAR 60.0, H 3089, HR 117 BA .310 R 1402, RBI 780, OBP .355, SLG .402, OPS .757, 10 all star games, 1 Gold Gloves, 3 Silver Slugger

      • Well Pete’s mother I hope your joking, he could hit a little bit? He had over 4000 hits over 700 doubles a lifetime 300 hitter more base on balls to SO a career OBP and for the new baseball fan an 80 WAR player so maybe not the best on his team but pretty damn good and a cancer every I’ve read and heard is that he was kind of a spark plug-in the clubhouse.

      • Well let’s not forget that Pete Rose also is 6th all time in runs scored and one of only four guys to ever hit 700 doubles. At 746 she is second all time only to the Gray Eagle. He didn’t play for 24 teams, he played for 24 seasons. Only three teams. Not that either of those things matter because Julio Franco played for about 160 years on 75 teams and let’s not even get into Harold Baines and neither of those guys or anyone else who played that long came close to the numbers Pete put up. On top of that, you try batting .303 over 24 seasons. Not very easy to accomplish. Rose may have been an unlikable shit bag but clearly is a hands down hall of famer. Keeping him out for disliking him just reinforces this stupidity that’s going on with a guy like Curt Schilling. It’s stupid and if their number is merit induction, they should be inducted. As far as the gambling goes, get over it. These hypocritical idiots are now pasting gambling advertisements on the back of the pictures mound in every broadcast. It’s okay now that we say so but it wasn’t okay when we didn’t say so so you’re out? That’s stupid. Guaranteed he’s not the only guy to ever gamble on the game he’s just the one that got caught, and because he wasn’t likable, he was the easiest scapegoat. Brian is right on Target with the hypocrisy of the game, the riders, the fans and MLB itself. Stealing signs, the so-called nonsensical pitch framing, the good old hidden ball tricks, and until this year, putting foreign substances on the ball have all been just some of the examples of tinkering with the game that have gone on for decades now. Look at the stupid shift, why don’t we have everybody in the field just come stand right in front of the batter with hockey equipment on and make sure no one ever gets a hit anywhere?? What’s right, what’s wrong? Who gives a shit until someone gives a shit and then it matters. The whole thing is a hypocritical joke and has now been the main thing tainting the game more than anything any player ever did.

      • Is my son a hall-of-famer? Sure, absent his gambling on baseball he would have been a first ballot guy.

        Y’all missed the point of my post. Two things the original poster claimed that I refuted. Let’s look:

        1. “If Bonds and Clemens get in, Rose should be let in.” Two issues with this. One Bonds and Clemens are singularly great palyers, first-ballot for sure, inner circle hall of famers. One could argue cogently that they are the best hitter and pitcher in history. My son is not in this statosphere. Second, their “crime” was not against the rules, Pete’s certainly was.

        2. “Best hitter in ball history” he wrote. Oh My God! Wrong at every level. Based on hits, which is a terrible measure of batting prowess, he’s second. On average he’s 179th. On offensive WAR he’s 29th.

        Sure you can find Cooperstown guys worse than my son. My goodness, you can find guys worse than every single one of the top 10-15 candidates.

        • Dear Mrs. Rose,
          You’re correct in confirming that your son was never actually the greatest hitter of all time. Not by a mile. But his accomplishments certainly, without a doubt merited first-ballot induction. Just keep in mind when trying to bag your boy by comparing his broken rule to others, steroids were, in fact, placed on the banned substance list in 1990. Banned means NOT ALLOWED. That means anyone taking them technically broke the rules. Just because it was basically a bullshit blue collar rule that no one cared to enforce at the time doesn’t mean it wasn’t a rule. You are confusing the aftermath of Congressional involvement with the time steroids were actually banned. This actually puts your son on pretty equal footing with other rule breakers. We are aware you can’t stand him, probably because he was such a pompous ass that no one else could stand him either but he is your son and he no more broke rules than anyone juicing after the 1990 banning of steroids. We just hate him so he’s not getting reinstated. Thank you, MLB Hypocrisy

  56. To all the writers, keep your frickin Politics out of Baseball and vote Curt Schilling. Vote for how he impacted the game and became a Warrior when it counted and not his political views.

  57. Sammy Sosa should have been in the HOF on the first ballot too! I read one of the writers defending not checking his name on the ballot because his defensive numbers weren’t good enough for the HOF but I think that’s a weak excuse for not including someone who slapped over 600 HRs with 3 seasons of 60+ HR, a feat not equaled by anyone ever! The arguments that he used steroids were never proven even though he did apparently test positive in the 2003 “anonymous” test. Such tests are not even close to 100% accurate and steroids were not banned at the time in the MLB anyway so it wasn’t cheating even if he had used PEDs. The “corked bat” issue is a joke too. Anyone using a corked bat in the MLB is almost guaranteed to get caught because the opposing catcher is sure to notice the odd sound the bat makes and they are much more prone to break open as this one did. Sosa’s explanation that it was an exhibition bat to excite the crowd during batting practice that somehow got mixed up with his other regulation bats during the game.
    There is no excuse for not having one the most exciting players of our generation in the HOF and its a real shame baseball writer’s are acting like a bunch of snobs over player’s workout and conditioning practices and wielding their meager weight to destroy the fun of building a HOF worthy of the sport itself by including ALL of the amazing accomplishments of the men who have played the game.

    • Rolen was flirting with 75% on some of the early days of the 2022 vote. It seems he will lead the players who fall short this time. but that also indicates he may be a favorite for the 2023 ballot.

  58. Clearly Oswaldo is having a great time and I don’t want to spoil it, but does anyone know what the hell chronist/cronist/cornist is????!

  59. buenos dias a todos incluyendo a nuestro amigo omar vizquel , le deseo mucha suerte en su vida y que pueda lograr la entrada al hall de la fama de la mlb , lo que estoy es tratando de aclarar son muchas cosas como persona fanatica que he seguido la trayectoria de omar vizquel desde que era rockie en el estadio universitario de caracas con los leones del caracas varias veces cuando joven fui al estadium de baseball y comenzo con el numero 23 que jugaba en venezuela, y jugo con varios veteranos como gonzalo marquez , antonio armas , baudilio diaz etc, lo que estoy buscan es tratar de que dejen los cornistas de utilizar en las votacion mereifiero a ti que dejen la parte personal

  60. Just show me the positive test, admission if use or court ruling that condemns Rocket and I ll concede he doesnt belong. I ll wait………

    • We’ll be waiting a long time Phil. I’ve been asking this forever. For all the guys who’s documents were scooped up at Balco, guys who failed the non-anonymous, anonymous testing, guys who’ve actually failed testing, etc, there’s nothing. Same for multiple other guys we have to listen to garbage about. Too many “wise old sages” around who’s greatest argument is something like “We all know who was using” or ” Don’t be stupid, everyone was using”. Brilliant, why didn’t we just think of that stroke of wisdom from the get go? If there’s proof, break it out. Otherwise, shut the hell up and vote on actual career performance.

    • You are innocent in this country until proven guilty in a court of law. They tried Clemens in a court of law and found him NOT GUILTY of lying about use of steroids to congress. What’s going on now is anti-American. Perhaps the MLB HOF should be renamed the Communist Hall of Fame (CHOF)?

  61. Hey remember me? My stats look pretty similar to Schilling’s Sock yet nobody is crying for me… 217 wins. 3.44 ERA. 2832 K’s. 3x All-Star – World Champ – World Series MVP Finished 2nd and 3rd in Cy Young – 1.57 post season ERA. Lead league in wins and K’s (308 for a lefty)… And I am a pretty nice guy

  62. Let’s get this election over already…. It has become a real travesty and I don’t think that anyone needs to belabor the point. The writers have had more than enough time to do their analysis and once again, they have proven that they are not deserving of having a vote. Anonymous voting? Seriously?? what are you afraid of?? The Hall needs to step back and clean house with these writers who do not do their home work… How do you finally put in in Minnie Minoso, Buck O’Neil, Ron Santo Gil Hodges and way too many others after the fact…they should have been in the HOF years ago… I am sickened by the fact that NOW the writers are giving Jim Kaat and Tony Oliva their due after all these years…Let’s call it a day… Only David Ortiz will likely be elected this year…

    • I agree but getting it over with isn’t going to change anything. As long as these idiotic writers are in charge of the voting, this is clearly going to go on year after year and only get worse. These stupid arguments about PEDs are ridiculous. If it’s not this, it will be something else. Too many people are allowed to vote and not held accountable for their shady behavior. Constantly looking for some reason to keep people out and pretending you are some kind of expert analyst is not what this was supposed to be about. How do you look at a list of guys who are already inducted, look at guys on the current ballot who have equivalent or better numbers than guys who have already been inducted and then not vote for them? It’s ridiculously stupid and it’s ruining the Hall of fame. Scratch that, it has already ruined the Hall of fame. There are guys in there who have put together lesser careers than guys like Dwight Evans, Fred McGriff and Don Mattingly to name a few full exhausted they’re eligibility on the ballot and then you have current guys like Jeff Kent &Todd Helton, with no obvious ties to steroid use and better numbers than guys who have been inducted already. Yet they are still languishing away far down the ballot. You have to be a complete idiot to look at this line of thinking and keep voting the way you are voting. It’s really extremely simple yet these jokers insist on going out of their way to force their misplaced and misguided senses of importance on intelligent fans. Then they will go to their stupid blogs and podcasts since they really are no actual journalists anymore with integrity, and try to justify not voting in guys who should be in or completely lie about it since their ballots are not public and pretend they have no idea what jerk offs are not voting for the guys they should be voting for. This whole system sucks and the once magical Hall of Fame is now a lesser place because of it. Thanks a lot losers.

  63. The BBWAA is a joke They dont even fill out the whole ballot let the fans vote

  64. Just listened to Dan Shaughnessy discuss his ballot on 95.7 The Game. It sounds like he has no interest in voting for anybody, and only voted for Jeff Kent because he didn’t want to submit a blank ballot. If this asshole had any pride he would rescind his own right to vote. Why participate if you hate all the players on the ballot? This guy should get his ass in a time capsule and fly it to “back in the good old days” where apparently nobody ever pushed the rules and the players were all honest mother theresas. What a “holier than thou” prick. Legends like Barry Bonds, Sammy Sosa, and Manny Ramirez hold places in the hearts and minds of thousands of kids who grew up idolizing them, they brought the game back to life. And this ass hole thinks he has the right to take his 20-20 hindsight and leave them out in the cold like they never existed. What a freaking prick.

    • He’s always been a self-important shit bag. But he’s basically a microcosm of the several like himself. They have somehow convinced themselves that opining on sports makes them important. You’ve spent your life talking about games. Great that you’re lucky enough to get away with something that should be fun but in the grand scheme, it’s really a pretty trivial, unnecessary job in the world. No one is going to suffer or die without misinformation or bad opinions about sports. If these guys didn’t carry the lumber and do the dirty work, clowns like this would not even have a career to speak of. So instead of judging them based on stupid assumptions and things you can’t prove, why not try being appreciative for your completely undeserved lot in life, stop being a douchebag and recognize the greatness before it’s too late. Or, like Stephen and others have said, just do the real sports fans a favor and relinquish your right to vote. That way you don’t keep screwing up the process with your meritless sense of imaginary diligence.

      • Looking at his previous years in the tracker, he’s pretty consistent in voting in very few players each time. Without the people he hasn’t voted for now, and maybe if no-one new appeals to him in 2023, it could be Kent and no-one again once more.

        2022 & 2021 : Jeff Kent
        2020 : Derek Jeter
        2019 : Mariano Rivera
        2018 : Jim Thome, Chipper Jones, Vlad Guerrero
        2017 : Vlad Guerrero, Tim Raines
        2016 : Ken Griffey Jr, Tim Raines, Curt Schilling, Alan Trammell

        • Obviously you are correct it’s saying that the only votes he casts are minimal. That doesn’t make him right though. It makes him the self-important fool that he is. Every year there are guys that should get votes and don’t Shaughnessy not voting for them just proves the point even more that he should not have a vote.

  65. I have a feeling that voters still working on their ballots, in other words the due date December 31st to submit their hall of fame ballots is not quite accurate. They (the voters) are still submitting their votes according to what they see on the voting process so far. Something like that happened with Curt Schilling voting totals last year. Actually, after the January 6th 2021 events last year when Curt Schilling was trending very good on the ballots (82-83%), then he came up with some tweets about the violent incidents in the congress and his percentage went down real quick, It felt like some voters decided not to vote for him and his numbers dropped dramatically. That is something to think about, seriously.

    • The whole thing has become extremely shady. From the writers having no idea what the hell they’re doing to the questionable voting process. It just feels like it’s not to be trusted any longer. Really doesn’t even matter. If they’re not going to put true Hall of Fame caliber players in anymore, who the hell is going to go see it? What’s there to see at this point?

  66. Put Bonds and Clemens in.
    They were hall of Famers before their stats jumped due to alleged steroid use. Even if they did juice, why do Piazza, Pudge Rodriguez and Biggio get in the Hall ?

    Answer : Because they were friendlier to the media and more well liked by the media

    Final point: How many guys have hit 400 homers and stolen 400 bases in their career ?

    Answer : One guy….named Barry Lamar Bonds. He entered the club all by himself in 1998 with a Hall of Fame career with those stats alone and 3 MVPs under his belt. All this was done clean and well before he was suspected of any PED.

    Bonds finished his career with 4 more MVPs ( 7 total ), 2 more batting titles, Single Season HR record, all time HR record and membership into the 500 / 500 club.

    No one will ever join the 400/400 club again. Had he retired at the end of the 1998 season….he was a first ballot Hall of Famer.

    Now he’s on the edge of getting in on his final year of eligibility?

    HOF voters are a joke.

    I’d like to see them hit a 98 mph fastball or 85 mph curveball like Bonds did when no one told him the pitch selection or location.

    • Accumulators to GREAT totals deserve to get in, like Biggio. 3,000 hits, 600 HRs, 300 Wins (which now might have to be lowered to 250), lifetime ERA under 3.00 with over 2,500 innings. They wanted 500 to be automatic so they were praying Kingman and Dunn would not reach it. As far as relief pitchers go, any of the old timers who got saves pitching 2-3 innings at a time deserve it (if they were great like Gossage, Fingers). The batters saw them more than once in the game unlike now with single inning pitchers. Pitching one inning 50 times a year is a joke. The thing about Mariano was that he’d come in and get the side out in 3 batters most of the time, not walking anyone or giving up more than a broken bat single. That is greatness. Everyone will have the opinion about Clemens, Bonds, Sosa, so let them in. Helton should also be an automatic.

  67. Put Barry Bonds in. He was the only other guy in baseball to do the 30/50 club with the rare combination of speed and power….30 homers and 50 homers. I almost did it in 1986 with 27 homers and 80 stolen bases….but I missed 30 games that year and played 132 games. I got into the 30/50 club myself the following year in 1987 by hitting 37 homers and stealing 50 bases…but I only played in 129 games that year….just think of what I could of done in 162 games back in 1987 ?

    Anyways, Bonds joined my exclusive club of 30 homers and 50 stolen bases in 1990. He’s the only other guy to do that in the history of baseball. He should go in the Hall of Fame…..

    I just wish I could have played some complete seasons as I tended to get injured a lot and only played 135 games as my all time high for games in 1988. Millenials will have never heard of me….and that’s ok. Pete Rose said I had more raw talent than anyone in the history of baseball. Despite missing so many games year over year ….I still racked up 282 career homeruns and 349 stolen bases. I think I could have joined Bonds in the 400/400 club if I didn’t get injured so much. Also, would of liked to see my childhood buddy Darryl play more games and stay sober…he was the straw that stirred the drink….and was on his way to the Hall of Fame after his first few years on the Mets.

    That’s it for me….put Bonds in….only other guy in the history of baseball besides me to join the rare 30 / 50 club for homers and steals.

    Eric “The Red” Davis

  68. At the end of the day, MLB is entertainment And in order to keep the game alive and relevant you need to honor the past players in order to appreciate the new players when it comes to comparing accomplishments. Tatis hit 42 homers as a shortstop/outfielder but mainly shortstop. Ozzie smith never hit 42 homers neither did jeter, but arod did and whether he used steroids or not, theres new fans that do not understand what that means or were even alive to see an arod, a manny or sosa. They have to rely on youtube vids and the whole steroids thing becomes irrelevant when discussing the history of the game. Nobody thinks about babe ruth not competing against black or latin players, they just see his greatness and his love for hotdogs and beer lol.
    Arod is a hall of famer, manny ramirez is a hall of famer, sammy sosa is a hall of famer, curt schilling is a hall of famer. These guys had great on field accomplishments. Its baseball for godsake, a sport where men spit, grab their crotch , curse and fight.. its not called the morality league baseball its called major league baseball!
    The nba understands the power of the youth, thats why they have more viewers. The nba incorporates fashion to pop culture, they incorporate the youth by inviting a kendall jenner and pairing her up with booker or making drake a part of the irrelevant raptors who won…
    Lets see mlb do the same thing
    LIDOM has been extremely fun to watch this winter
    They have cheerleaders !!

    • Some of what you say makes sense. The people you named accomplished an awful lot and do belong in the Hall of Fame. As far as making the game friendlier to the younger generation, really want you described is turning it into a pop culture, hip hop driven conglomeration. The NBA may have of your fans but it has also alienated older fans. Some of that is incorporating popular culture which really only attracts Young people. A big part of it is also ridiculous changes they have made in the game like limiting defensive abilities, making insane stupid calls all the time and turning it into basically an offense only League. It’s why you can’t really compare today’s players to past players because everyone shoots non-stop. No one fears getting out rebounded by a guy trying to get an offensive rebound, no one fears running into the paint because no one is allowed to stand there and intimidate them physically. The game is ruined. It’s already happening to Major League baseball and that my friend, is due to the short attention span of the younger generation. All these ridiculous things they are doing is to try and attract people who can’t pay attention to the game the way it is. Pitch clocks are stupid. The guy taking his time in what is basically a chess match against the matter, getting inside the guy’s head, that’s gamesmanship. Removing the intentional walk. Or I should say, making it so that the picture doesn’t have to throw those four pictures anymore there’s also stupid. It’s a picture wanted to intentionally walk someone he had to throw four outside pitches. If he missed the catcher with one of those pictures, it was a past ball and if they were runners on base they would advance. That has been completely taken out of the game with this new stupid rule. So younger generation has grown up in the digital age where everything is fast and happens right now when you wanted to. That’s not what baseball is about. Does everything have to be ruined because it doesn’t happen in 3 seconds or less? MLB doesn’t need to become a dance club. Although you are right, they do need to get their head out of their ass when it comes to deciding who most people it of the Hall of Fame because this is insanity.

  69. Glad and happy that people open up their eyes to this BBWAA voting process before this whole “PEDs situation”, or maybe “He’s just a borderline case at best” or about the “political issue and the character clause” as part of the voting process. Which are mostly a bunch of excuses to play the role of God as a voter and judge players for what they did in their lives, not based on what they did on the field. The writers can vote however they want, but we know that this whole process is wrong. So, at the end of the day voters are going to decide who’s going to make it into Cooperstown, but you know what? We don’t care, we know that Barry Bonds, Roger Clemens, Curt Schilling and so many other players are hall of famers because of what they did on the field and based solely on their numbers and achievements. By the way, like or not, Barry Bonds is the Homerun king. Have a good one!

    • Exactly. Imagine these writers thinking they have such power because they have the ballots. They are ruining the product and the Hall of Fame is too stupid to fix it. Major League baseball Hall of Fame will now be without the all-time hits leader, the all-time home run leader, the winningest picture in postseason history and a guy who has the third most strikeouts, the 9th most wins and and unheard of seven Cy Young awards. And that’s just the tip of the iceberg. What a bunch of idiots.

  70. Well all I can say is Bud Selig is in the hof. He is the commissioner who turned a blind eye to what was going on in the game. As far as I’m concerned there are far to many players getting the shaft when he is in. Let’s talk about guys who barely got a look because of baseball writers. McGriff, Edmonds, MCGwire Berkman PETE ROSE. For the love of god let the fans decide. Sanctimonious beat writers don’t mean Jack!

  71. 10 years ago I would have said no way to Bonds and Clemens. But after experiencing cancel culture and hating it, and hating media spin more and more…I no longer see it that way. The voting writers’ “honor” no longer applies to my view, it is “could you not tell the story of baseball during this man’s career without him?” If no, time to take a closer look. Then look at their accomplishments on the field.
    Bonds and Clemens, whether they took steroids or not, and no matter how big of an a-hole they were, no matter how much the media’s feelings were hurt- their accomplishments (even if diluted for suspected steroids) are among the best or THE best of their era. In. Put all the qualifiers on the plaque about steroids along with the stats. I put ARod in this category too.
    Sosa? I am not quite sure he is a HOF player without steroids. Same with Manny. Same with Ortiz. Schilling’s stats are on the fence, I could go either way but can’t think of another SP not already in who is better.
    Rose? Fine to uphold a lifetime ban. He becomes eligible once he dies. Go ahead and put that he admitted to betting on baseball on the plaque. Same with Shoeless Joe. Basis? You cannot tell the story of baseball without Rose during his era.
    Sanctimonious writers should not be gatekeepers.

  72. We all know damn well who belongs in the Hall of Fame and who doesn’t. The Hall of Fame continuing to allow these morons to control the process just shows that the Hall of Fame doesn’t really care about the game itself. This whole steroid argument has become so ridiculous that it’s not even worth talking about anymore. Not that it really was in the first place because there have been guys using some version of steroids for well over a hundred years. Various testosterone elixirs and injections and prior to anabolic steroid invention and then it just went on from there. The US government gets involved and suddenly everyone has a moral bug up their ass about it so this singular generation of guys have become pariahs. What a bunch of crap. Let’s all stop pretending we are suddenly up in arms over this thing when we knew damn well it was going on long before this. The writers have no problem painting a guy’s reputation based on speculation without proof but they are morally astounded by the use of steroids? Or can’t fathom Curt Schilling having his own political beliefs? Grow up and do your job.

  73. So you guys want to talk about the “steroid guys”? Ok, well, then let’s talk about greenies and amphetamines back in the day. Is that ok with you pointing at players today because they did “steroids”? Well, let’s just call things by their names, “PEDs or steroids today were just like greenies or amphetamines back in the day. So WTH are we talking about here? You want to talk about cheaters? Ok, let’s talk about a guy named Gaylord Perry who won 300 plus games and he was pitching the spitted ball, don’t you tell me you guys forgot about this. You want to talk about characters clause? You want me to go over that? Racism and all kind of stuff back then.

  74. Just took a look at the expanded tracking sheet for the first time. I never look at it because all that really matters is the voting percentage shown on the results list above. But what struck me the saddest was that, I’ve been a sports fan, and pretty avid I guess for several decades now and I have probably heard of about 2% of the writers on that list. It’s sad how far sports journalism has fallen and even sadder, how little importance these guys play in everyday life. People with brains watch sports and when they can’t, they basically look at a box score for the information they want and move on. These clowns bring nothing to the table and basically spout off meaningless garbage no one cares about. They all act like big important people, feigning unearned respect toward each other like they are all somehow more knowledgeable than the rest of us. About what? The way a game was played or managed? Breaking down defenses? Compiling phony mock drafts on the stupid Internet that mean nothing because they are generally about 97% wrong at least? Wow thanks for the memories! So what are all boils down to is that the fates of some of baseballs greatest players ever are left in the hands of, what basically amounts to, absolutely no one???

  75. Thank you to everyone for your support of me, my socks, and my constitutional rights. I have to admit something. Omar Vizquel and I wagered who could lose more votes this year. Me, I asked to not be on the ballot and told people not to vote for me. Omar beat up his wife and chased a bay boy around with a semi erect penis. Google that bat boy story if you think it’s a joke. Actions speak louder than words, so Omar lost more votes and he won our bet. I’ll be mailing him a signing baseball. Had no idea about the bat boy thing until yesterday. Kid had autism. Told to wash the back of a naked Omar. Unbelievable.

    • Curt you should open your own museum right next to Pete Rose’s. You could enshrine all the guys who are getting screwed at the “former” hall of Fame and then go from there. If you put all the past greats who belong in as well, you will have what the other place should have had. I don’t blame you for asking to be removed from the ballot. Who the hell wants to be enshrined in a discriminatory dump like that anymore? If you need any money to get started, just ask the state of Rhode Island. I’m sure they know you’re good for it.

  76. I imagine some of these Baseball writers are sour grapes because their teams couldn’t beat Barry Bonds, Roger Clemens, Sammy Sosa, Mark McGwire, etc. so this is their last best chance to get even with them for eviscerating their homeboys. The selection process here is corrupt.

  77. Because I am a moron and posted on the 2020 Message Board – I reposted here…I am dumb enough to be a baseball beat writer.

    Well since this current group of “writers” feel the need to protect BBHOF and next year’s ballot looks like a lost cause with the potential future inductee being Carlos Beltran — I propose the writers do something different and select which players to remove from the Hall…still will need the 75% but let’s clean the joint up of all the bad apples and players that didn’t deserved to be elected always (who cares about Eppa Rixey anyways? Remove his plaque and make room for more important stuff – like the trash can banged in the WS with a letter written by Dan Shaughnessy why no Astros will ever see the HOF). Lastly , move up the ceremony date to May 2023 and call it Spring Cleaning Weekend. I am guessing Jackie Robinson and Tom Seaver may be the only players left with a plaque.

  78. 1st option all ballots should be reviewed by a committee of hall of famers after the voting and decide what writers should remain in the process in which one should be, to put it nicely, let go.
    2nd Option, let the hall of famers vote, not the writers.

    • Also should stop referring to them as writers. They really don’t do anything important at this point. Journalistic integrity went the way of the pterodactyl long ago. These clowns are pretenders. More concerned about pretending to be relevant in an age where no one in the media really is. Should firm a fan committee to vote on which “writers” should be forced to go bag groceries instead of wasting Hall of Fame ballots for a living.

      • Yeah, their claim to fame is they kept Barry Bonds out of the HOF. I am sure they brag at every opportunity of their moral purity and the righteousness of the diamond shaped church where they worship only angels.

  79. Many players elected previousaly couldn’t shine many deserving players who were left out. Most of these players elected were drunks and couldn’t compete on the level of minor league players,

  80. Again, just as a reminder, say whatever you want to say writers and voters about steroids and PEDs, but Barry Bonds is the all time home run leader whether you like it or not. I will say this again back then players used GREENIES and AMPHETAMINES, so deal with it, that was also called cheating. So it was ok back then if players hit 500, 600 and 700 home runs in past decades, but if a player on this recent era hits 500 plus home runs oh wait, maybe he is cheating. That in other words is what you are saying about players today.

    • Yeah, the MLB let Bonds, Clemens, Sosa, Ortiz, A-Rod, etc. keep playing even after they had pretty much all the concrete evidence that we have today. That was the MLB’s choice. Who are these pencil pushers to reject the MLB’s final decision on these players???

  81. Thanks you to some sports chronist that give the New opportinity to omar vizquel and bobby abreu i hope i the nexts years of the ballots bbhof the porcents can increase and ca give the opportinity to both omar vizquel and bobby abreu can enter to the hall of fame in the future
    Thanks and best regards
    Oswaldo zambrano


  82. The “Today’s Game” ERA committee needs to meet every year. The max for committee should be increased to 5 or 6. It’s crazy to think the writers aren’t going to let anybody in again. They have no credibility. There are at least 12 names on the ballot this year that will get in eventually regardless of the writes.

  83. The Blowhards Boneheads Wack job Asshat Association should be stripped of the privilege to vote. They obviously do not understand it is a privilege and have taken said privilege as a right of passage. In fairness, many of us have condemned the so-called writers over this voting process for several years now, and with good reason but they are not all to blame. Obviously there are several guys who have shown they will vote for the right people who everyone knows deserve to be in. They don’t let politics and external nonsense stand in their way and they check off the correct names on the ballot. It’s not rocket science and no one cares what your opinion is, we know who deserves it and they should just be checked off on your ballot at this point. There really should be a vetting process if the writers are to remain the voters. Someone reliable who goes through the ballots cast over the last 20 years or so and removes any writers who don’t vote for obvious Hall of Famers and anyone whose name does not appear on a ballot, hence they have sent in blank ballots. Get rid of those morons because they don’t deserve the privilege of enshrining the best of the best since obviously all they they’ve shown is the propensity to abuse that privilege.

    • Not ROCKET science, lolz

      Imma dump on this ballot every year and tell you afterward how great it felt to dump.

      What are you gonna do, write a letter? HOF can kiss our arses, we don’t give a ship who enjoys anything about baseball anymore. We love circle jerking about ethics in baseball, then love on all the football players regardless of PED suspensions. Tried and tested policy of not giving a damn.

      There’s literally no one overseeing our nonsense. So don’t expect any improvement anytime soon.

      • We get it guys. We’re all well aware that it’s more important for you guys to impress each other than to kind of guys that get laid. Have fun with that circle jerk.

  84. Looks like Rocket and Bonds will get in after all, unless they are left off one many of the other half of the missing ballots here. Press loves big Papi so they are overlooking his leaked steroid test. I would think Albert Bell would have been elected if he hadn’t been such an Ahole to the press.

    • MLB has never presented any evidence that Ortiz failed a test, and no one he played with has ever indicated that they thought he juiced. Couple that with the fact that a) there was no proscription on steroids in the period investigated by the Mitchell Report, and b) Ortiz never failed any test he was given in the years following his Mitchell Report ‘mention’ (since none of us have seen that report, we really don’t know what that ‘mention’ was. Could be that he spoke about observing steroid use- MLB has backed his statement that he didn’t juice), I’m good with his admission.
      In fact, his career took off after that report was submitted. During a period when there is stone cold proof he wasn’t testing positive for steroids.

      As for Clemons and Bonds, I am good with their admission thru the Recent History Committee. Let the players who competed with them put them in.

      And Bud Selig, who turned the other cheek during this mess? I really don’t think he deserves the plaque.

      • Amen Marvelous Marvin. Why are so many people so blind to facts nowadays and so he’ll bent on throwing garbage, speculative arguments out there they show their lack of knowledge? What happened to the pride in themselves Americans once had?

      • What I find puzzling and humorous is the discrepancy between the votes Bonds and Clemens have received – IF you use the steroid argument , then you would vote for neither. IF you vote purely on what they did on the field – both are obviously no doubt about it inductees. I don’t understand why some voters select one and not the other?!?! Maybe Stoney can explain to me over an ice cold Old Style.

  85. Again, you want to talk about cheating, talk about Greenies and amphetamines back in the 50s, 60s, 70s and 80s. Talk about that, that was cheating and guess what? MLB allowed it back then. Now, some people want to protect Big Papi saying that was something else, but they want to throw mud over Bonds, Clemens, Sosa and the rest of the guys. Players have been cheating for a long, very long time, but you decided to look the other way. Now you want to tell everybody (talking about a few MLB broadcasters and reporters) that Bonds, Clemens, Sosa and others that they cheated and it was wrong. Call things by their names, players in the past, players already enshrined cheated as well, and you did nothing about it. Stop pointing the fingers at Barry Bonds, Roger Clemens, Sammy Sosa and about the other guys. This topic stinks already. Change the subject, stop it. Now, you want to talk about the characters clause trying to judge every human being as if they were gods or perfect human beings.

    • You know, I’m certainly no expert on steroids but I have received dozens of steroid injections in my lumbar spine to treat bulging discs and arthritis. It largely has never been very effective but for some people it works magic. My wife for example had persistent sciatica. She could barely walk. The pain doctor identified the problem in the thoracic spine, gave her one injection and presto she was immediately cured and years later has had no residuals whatsoever. Anyway, I am mystified how these Baseball Writers and other armchair MLB Commissioners can persecute players for receiving medically approved steroid injections? Also, when joints and ligaments are damaged, one of the preferred courses of mitigation is to build up muscle, but when athletes suddenly put on muscle weight it is almost automatically assumed to be evidence of steroid abuse? And when their careers are extended in part because of their theraputic success, again steroid abuse is assumed. Its not fair, it doesn’t reflect our judicial order in America and these “judges” really need to look in the mirror and ask themselves if they have been thorough in their conviction and persecution of these athletes or have they just jumped on the bandwagon of angry hypocrits?

    • Bullshit, you guys love this or you wouldn’t be here like the rest of us. The true baseball hierarchy that is the knowledgeable fan base. The ones who should have the say in who we pay money to see perpetually frozen on that wall of historical significance, for all true future fans to revel in. For we know deep down that without these legends, what purpose does the Hall really serve?

  86. To quote that great American Bobby Knight, “All of us learn to write in the 2nd grade. Most of us go on to greater things.”

    Writers are overly sensitive to the way players treat them. These same writers are very pious about players competing that used performance enhancers, while writers use spellcheck and have editors proof their work. Again, “All of us learn to write in 2nd grade…!”

  87. I will begin by saying this, congratulations to David Ortiz! You deserve it as much as Barry Bonds, Roger Clemens and Curt Schilling who didn’t make it, but that’s ok. Bonds and Clemens never tested positive to steroids. Barry Bonds is the All Time Home Run like it or not and Roger Clemens is the only pitcher ever to win 7 Cy Young Awards. They are both Hall of Famers for the majority of people, including some voters too.


      • Most of the people know that those two are hall of famers even if voters do not voted them in, at the end of the day, we, the fans, know that those two belong into Cooperstown. There were cheaters in the past that used “Greenies” and nobody ever said a word about it. We know that there are players like Gaylord Perry who cheated and were inducted a long time ago. Is that your wake up call?

      • Anyone can say they were there or they saw it know something. That’s not proof so none of us can possibly “know” what someone else did when there’s no proof. Obviously there were positive test for Bonds found in the Balco raid and we know that from the ensuing court records. Obviously he said he didn’t know why it what he was given so call him what you want. There are no such damning documents regarding Clemens. A former employee is hardly the reliable source of truth most of us would count on. No weeping or teeth gnashing, just facts. Either way, when does it end? If Bonds maintains he’s confused and Clemens says he didn’t do it, we should just decide they are liars because we want to? Sounds pretty American

          • Clearly you are a Bonds supporter and that’s great. The guy was obviously amazing. But can you honestly say you don’t remember the Balco raid? There were documents all over the place showing he had steroids in his system at least four times. Four separate documents entered into evidence in the court proceedings. That’s why he started saying he didn’t know what was in the cream and the clear. He was denying any knowledge of steroid use. Honestly I could care less one way or the other but they did produce those documents in the court hearings. Kind of hard to deny at that point.

        • Exactly. Who has the most MVPs? Who has the most Cy Youngs? The most lifetime hits? Homers? Best post season winning percentage all-time? Nobody? Really?

          • Are we not going to get the answers to these questions? We gathered around with pencils and notepads, ready to learn.

          • We definitely won’t get those answers at the hall of fame because none of those people will be in there. Might as well shove your pencils up your asses and sit down. It’s going to be a long wait.

  88. Muchas gracias a los 94 cronistas deportivos que todavía confiaron en omar vizquel todavía espero que para el próximo año 2023 tengamos la oportunidad de que tanto omar vizquel por la via de los cronistas deportivos puedan darle a Venezuela por esta vía y por el comite de veterano puedan en
    Trar al hall de la fama de mlb a omar vizquel y a david concepción los dos mejores ss despues de luis aparicio que jugaron tanto en Venezuela y en la mlb espero que los requemores y comentarios y la vida personal de los peloteros desaparezcan y se concentren solo en lo hecho en el terreno para el próximo año por Venezuela va a su primera oportunidad el 4 mejor relevista en la mlb es el kid rodriguez y le deseo suerte hasta él próximo año
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  89. How in the world is Mark Buherle a better pitcher than Tim Hudson, who had more ks, more wins and a better ERA. It looks pretty much that some of the people who tell or say on TV or radio, this guy or that guy is a hall of famer, sending a message to the hall voters is who is actually telling the voters to vote for them. The voting process is not so clear and are waking up to that.

  90. Clowns like whoever the hell Joel Reuter is, are the reason this is going bad. Idiot writes an entire article to describe why Ortiz is not a Hall of Famer AFTER he’s already elected. He breaks down nonsensical “first ballot” bullshit as if we’re all supposed to acknowledge this as normal. You’re either a Hall of Famer or not. The first ballot, 5th ballot, middle school popularity contest is just something idiots have adopted to make their opinions and “breakdowns” seem important, which they still aren’t. He tries to explain crap ops+ as an “all encompassing” stat that puts Ortiz below Edgar Martinez. Sorry moron, I’m probably going to take the guy who smacked 230 more homers and drove in 500 more runs while leading me through 3 more World Series championships over the guy who may have batted for higher average but drove in far less runs (which, for the Reuters of the world, equal points and, therefore, wins) and lead me to ZERO championships. Simple enough for the millions of us who understand how simple the game actually breaks down. More runs driven in=more likeliness to win games=more likely to get to the playoffs and win those games. Duh. Seems to have worked out in Ortiz and his team’s favor. Championships are obviously the ultimate point of playing each season and they’re accomplished by winning. Winning is accomplished by clutch hitters and run production. Make up all the useless nerd stats you want but it’s always been this way.

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